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  3. Gohan was stronger than Dabra.

User Info: Scotty_Rogers

Scotty_Rogers
2 months ago#21
FlyingWindGod posted...
Yet despite that, Gohan got his ass chewed out by Vegeta for essentially botching the fight.

Vegeta was just impatient to fight Goku, who reminded him that Gohan still had a chance.

FlyingWindGod posted...
The anime even directly stated at one point that Dabura was toying with him.

Non-canon. They were even in the manga, and only because Dabra used his cheap magic tricks; Gohan had him beat in raw power and actual fighting skill.

FlyingWindGod posted...
But neither does Goku telling Gohan to get angry make sense if you assume that just using SS2 was going to be more than enough to deal with him.

Even if he needs to get angry to have a clear advantage over Dabra, he's at least equal to him as the fight showed.

FlyingWindGod posted...
For Dabura, there's no reason to disregard his claim that he could take SS1 Gohan based on what he had seen. Obviously we know Gohan is capable of more than that but I dispute the idea that Gohan could've won against him with the level of power he displayed in that fight.

We know he can't do anything against Gohan's Kamehameha, which is stronger and faster than any of Dabra's magic tricks. All Gohan needs to do is hit him with it.
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User Info: FlyingWindGod

FlyingWindGod
2 months ago#22
SpiralSwords posted...
What about Semi-Cell?

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After being knocked around by Super Vegeta for awhile, he believed his Full-Power would've been enough to turn things around. Once he saw how unaffected Vegeta was from his punch, he started to realize how outmatched he was. That's when he started going wild. More often than not, Cell seems better at judging the power of others, but this is one of those instances where he discards that entirely.

My guess here is that Cell couldn't tell that Vegeta was barely exerting himself when he gave him the initial beating. He only realized this after how easily he saw Vegeta tank his blasts. But it was interesting that he concluded beyond the shadow of a doubt that his Perfect Form would've been able to beat Vegeta once he had a firm grasp of his power.

I don't think this makes Cell dumb. Maybe when it comes to seeing how much others pull punches or how much power they're hiding but usually not after he's fully experienced what they can do.

Scotty_Rogers posted...
No, because he ate the 3000 kili just fine and even encouraged Goku to give him more of it. There's no reason why Yakon would die from something that he was shown to easily handle. Anyone could tell that Goku went beyond 3000 kili to kill Yakon; it'd be smarter if you argued that Dabra just assumed Goku didn't go far enough to surpass him, but that still shows arrogance on his part, since he didn't know what the precise number was.

Neither Babidi nor Dabura seemed to understand how Yakon was killed. Dabura thought it was just overconsumption of light energy. Remember, Dabura and Babidi can't seem to discern ki very well. Dabura just thought Goku was simply glowing until Babidi took out the scanner.

User Info: FlyingWindGod

FlyingWindGod
2 months ago#23
Scotty_Rogers posted...
Vegeta was just impatient to fight Goku, who reminded him that Gohan still had a chance.

He was livid with how weak Gohan had gotten and felt that watching him was a waste of everyone's time.

Scotty_Rogers posted...
Non-canon. They were even in the manga, and only because Dabra used his cheap magic tricks; Gohan had him beat in raw power and actual fighting skill.

Sure it's not official but it supports the evidence that Dabura was stronger than he let on. Goku and Vegeta concurred with this even though Vegeta knew he wasn't anything they couldn't handle.

Scotty_Rogers posted...
Even if he needs to get angry to have a clear advantage over Dabra, he's at least equal to him as the fight showed.

Equal enough that simply going SS2 wouldn't have given Gohan enough of an advantage? I don't buy that. Goku knows that Gohan can still turn SS2 at will. So why not just say, "hey son... you know that SS2 form you used at the tournament? Yeah, just do that and you'll be fine."

Scotty_Rogers posted...
We know he can't do anything against Gohan's Kamehameha, which is stronger and faster than any of Dabra's magic tricks. All Gohan needs to do is hit him with it.

Easier said than done. Remember, Trunks needed Shin to lock him in place in order to actually hit him with his charged ki blast.

User Info: Scotty_Rogers

Scotty_Rogers
2 months ago#24
FlyingWindGod posted...
Neither Babidi nor Dabura seemed to understand how Yakon was killed.

They both understood. Bobbidi was just freaked out at the fact Goku pulled it off at all.

FlyingWindGod posted...
Dabura thought it was just overconsumption of light energy.

And it was; Goku powered up, giving Yakon more energy he could handle. Clearly it had to have been more than 3k kili as Yakon handled that just fine.

FlyingWindGod posted...
Remember, Dabura and Babidi can't seem to discern ki very well.

They can still tell something as obvious as someone powering up. Goku's stance, facial expression and the blast he shot at Yakon should have made it clear he went beyond 3k kili.
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User Info: Scotty_Rogers

Scotty_Rogers
2 months ago#25
FlyingWindGod posted...
He was livid with how weak Gohan had gotten and felt that watching him was a waste of everyone's time.

Only because he was impatient to fight Goku.

FlyingWindGod posted...
Sure it's not official but it supports the evidence that Dabura was stronger than he let on.

It doesn't support anything, because it's non-canon. Dabra was only stronger than Goku originally thought because of his magic tricks.

FlyingWindGod posted...
Equal enough that simply going SS2 wouldn't have given Gohan enough of an advantage? I don't buy that. Goku knows that Gohan can still turn SS2 at will. So why not just say, "hey son... you know that SS2 form you used at the tournament? Yeah, just do that and you'll be fine."

It's debatable what form Gohan even used. If he was SS1, then him having SS2 before was retconned as he's clearly stronger than he was at the tournament against Dabra; the only way he'll turn SS2 again is by getting angry. If he was already SS2 like he logically should have been, then he just needed to get angry to beat Dabra.

FlyingWindGod posted...
Easier said than done. Remember, Trunks needed Shin to lock him in place in order to actually hit him with his charged ki blast.

Fair enough.
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User Info: Vegeta1000

Vegeta1000
2 months ago#26
FlyingWindGod posted...
The anime even directly stated at one point that Dabura was toying with him.

I'm pretty sure that was only the dub.

Does it make sense? No it doesn't. But neither does Goku telling Gohan to get angry make sense if you assume that just using SS2 was going to be more than enough to deal with him. This is supplemented by the fact that in spite of Dabura making attempts at Gohan's life and then failing, he confidently felt he could take him when push came to shove. You also have other bits like the Daizenshuu and the DBS manga, both of which confirm Dabura was SS2 level all along.

Gohan was struggling with Dabura obviously, but he wasn't weaker. The fight basically told the story. Dabura had no reason to hold back since his job was to inflict damage to send energy to Buu. Dabura saying Gohan is trash is just him being arrogant. And Present Dabura =/= Future Dabura.

It's funny you compare him to Cell. Because Cell has never once misjudged his own power compared to someone else's if he has seen it firsthand. He accurately guessed that he'd win against Goku even if he let Goku eat a senzu bean in between fights. And he accurately guessed that his Perfect Form could stop Vegeta. Cell's problem is that he often misjudges other people's power if they're hiding a lot more than they're letting on.

Cell must be crap at ki sensing.

-Thought he could beat Piccolo at Ginger Town

-Thought he could beat ASSJ Vegeta

-Thought he could beat SSJ2 Gohan

How did those end for him? He's just c***y as f***.

For Dabura, there's no reason to disregard his claim that he could take SS1 Gohan based on what he had seen. Obviously we know Gohan is capable of more than that but I dispute the idea that Gohan could've won against him with the level of power he displayed in that fight.

Not this s*** again. Statements and actions say he was SSJ2. No reason for him not to go all-out. And Gohan owned Dabura in every physical confrontation they had and both were shosn breathing heavy at the end.
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