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  3. Was 22nd Budokai King Chappa stronger than Tao Pai Pai and Grandpa Gohan?
dragonball0900 1 year ago#1
I've been reading the 22nd Budokai saga, and this seems interesting.

Roshi, Yamcha and Krillin all three saw how strong Post Korin Goku was. They knew Goku had destroyed the whole Red Ribbon Army, they saw him defeating Mummy Man (who was directly stated by Roshi to be stronger than 21st Budokai Goku), Devil Man (stated to be far stronger than Mummy Man) and even Grandpa Gohan in Baba's palace. They clearly knew how much stronger Goku was than all three of them.

But even after knowing all of these feats, they were still worried about King Chappa. They were mostly worried by the fact that Goku's fight against King Chappa would be tough. Then we have Roshi's quote, saying that the fight against King Chappa would show how much Goku has improved throughout these 3 years. It wouldn't make sense if Chappa was a weakling and was still weaker than even Tao Pai Pai, who got beaten by Post Korin Goku (although he was not that far behind him). King Chappa also had great feats, like winning a whole Budokai without being touched.

Roshi, Yamcha and Krillin watched all of King Chappa's fight against Goku. They knew how strong King Chappa was based on that fight, yet they were still shocked that Goku apparently got "so much stronger" throught the last 3 years. It wouldn't make sense for them to be worried, specially Roshi.

Now this lets to the question. Was King Chappa actually stronger than Tao Pai Pai, the Red Ribbon Army and all of Baba's fighters including Grandpa Gohan? The narrative of the scene seems to clearly imply that. I read through most forums here on the internet, and the topic seems quite divided. Some believe Chappa is stronger than Post Korin Goku, but some others believe he wasn't even stronger than Tao Pai Pai, mostly due to the lack of feats. But in this case, I believe is unfair to say Chappa wasn't stronger just because of "lack of feats" when he had no option than to fight against a far stronger Goku than 3 years ago.

What do you think about this?
Itsonlyajoke 1 year ago#2
dragonball0900 posted...
I've been reading the 22nd Budokai saga, and this seems interesting.

Roshi, Yamcha and Krillin all three saw how strong Post Korin Goku was. They knew Goku had destroyed the whole Red Ribbon Army, they saw him defeating Mummy Man (who was directly stated by Roshi to be stronger than 21st Budokai Goku), Devil Man (stated to be far stronger than Mummy Man) and even Grandpa Gohan in Baba's palace. They clearly knew how much stronger Goku was than all three of them.

But even after knowing all of these feats, they were still worried about King Chappa. They were mostly worried by the fact that Goku's fight against King Chappa would be tough. Then we have Roshi's quote, saying that the fight against King Chappa would show how much Goku has improved throughout these 3 years. It wouldn't make sense if Chappa was a weakling and was still weaker than even Tao Pai Pai, who got beaten by Post Korin Goku (although he was not that far behind him). King Chappa also had great feats, like winning a whole Budokai without being touched.

Roshi, Yamcha and Krillin watched all of King Chappa's fight against Goku. They knew how strong King Chappa was based on that fight, yet they were still shocked that Goku apparently got "so much stronger" throught the last 3 years. It wouldn't make sense for them to be worried, specially Roshi.

Now this lets to the question. Was King Chappa actually stronger than Tao Pai Pai, the Red Ribbon Army and all of Baba's fighters including Grandpa Gohan? The narrative of the scene seems to clearly imply that. I read through most forums here on the internet, and the topic seems quite divided. Some believe Chappa is stronger than Post Korin Goku, but some others believe he wasn't even stronger than Tao Pai Pai, mostly due to the lack of feats. But in this case, I believe is unfair to say Chappa wasn't stronger just because of "lack of feats" when he had no option than to fight against a far stronger Goku than 3 years ago.

What do you think about this?
King chappa I doubt it. I think he doesn't have any key control. Kid goku barely even tried against king chappa. But tao could be a different story. He gave kid goku a run for his money before training with korin
dragonball0900 1 year ago#3
Itsonlyajoke posted...
King chappa I doubt it. I think he doesn't have any key control. Kid goku barely even tried against king chappa. But tao could be a different story. He gave kid goku a run for his money before training with korin
Yes, but this is a far stronger Goku than 3 years ago. The Goku before training with Korin was drastically far weaker than the Goku that fought King Chappa.
Itsonlyajoke 1 year ago#4
dragonball0900 posted...
Yes, but this is a far stronger Goku than 3 years ago. The Goku before training with Korin was drastically far weaker than the Goku that fought King Chappa.
Didn't goku fought king chappa twice? If I remember correctly goku easily defeated king chappa at there first meeting at martial tournament when he was a kid. These is the same Goku who fought tien at the martial tournament and they were almost evenly matched. And its the same tournament where tien fought against master roshi. And master roshi gave tien a hard battle before he gave up
DBZAOTA482 1 year ago#5
Yamcha, Krillin, and Jackie Chun all saw Goku fight seriously at Baba's Palace and knew he would get stronger yet still thought he would lose against Chapa. He was definitely intended to be stronger than Organic Tao and Grandpa Gohan but it's easy to overlook because Chapa only existed to make Goku look good.
I'm not a victim.
LowRyder2005 1 year ago#6
Yeah, that's a well-know passage, and the implication is what you said: that Chappa is above all these guys. Roshi thinks Goku is in for a hard fight, and the latter was seen fighting seriously against Gohan. That's all there is to it.

In my experience, those trying to rationalize it in another way have a hard time swallowing that a relatively random fighter is above Gohan and Tao Pai Pai. Still, the series later provides another example with Yajirobe being some sort of untrained monster, so it's conceivable that Tao Pai Pai and Gohan were hardly the strongest in the world.

Didn't goku fought king chappa twice? If I remember correctly goku easily defeated king chappa at there first meeting at martial tournament when he was a kid. These is the same Goku who fought tien at the martial tournament and they were almost evenly matched. And its the same tournament where tien fought against master roshi. And master roshi gave tien a hard battle before he gave up

That's correct. Remember that Goku is using a percentage of his power against Chappa, though; he uses more strength against Krillin, and goes all-out only against Tenshinhan, whose full strength also surprises Roshi in the finals.
dragonball0900 1 year ago#7
Itsonlyajoke posted...
Didn't goku fought king chappa twice? If I remember correctly goku easily defeated king chappa at there first meeting at martial tournament when he was a kid. These is the same Goku who fought tien at the martial tournament and they were almost evenly matched. And its the same tournament where tien fought against master roshi. And master roshi gave tien a hard battle before he gave up
Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with Tao Pai Pai, who got beaten by a far weaker Goku.

DBZAOTA482 posted...
Yamcha, Krillin, and Jackie Chun all saw Goku fight seriously at Baba's Palace and knew he would get stronger yet still thought he would lose against Chapa. He was definitely intended to be stronger than Organic Tao and Grandpa Gohan but it's easy to overlook because Chapa only existed to make Goku look good.
Yeah, that seems to be the narrative's purpose in that part of the story.

LowRyder2005 posted...
Yeah, that's a well-know passage, and the implication is what you said: that Chappa is above all these guys. Roshi thinks Goku is in for a hard fight, and the latter was seen fighting seriously against Gohan. That's all there is to it.

In my experience, those trying to rationalize it in another way have a hard time swallowing that a relatively random fighter is above Gohan and Tao Pai Pai. Still, the series later provides another example with Yajirobe being some sort of untrained monster, so it's conceivable that Tao Pai Pai and Gohan were hardly the strongest in the world.
Yeah, and also based on their reactions after seeing Goku beating Chappa. If Chappa was weaker than Grandpa Gohan, then it wouldn't make sense for them to be worried that Goku would have a tough fight or them to be surprised at the fact that Goku beat Chappa easily. It was all about "how much did Goku improve after all these 3 years?".
ThePikachuBandi 1 year ago#8
If it lends any credence to Chappa's strength, in sketches released by Toyo he was the one who trained Uub.
mizukage2 1 year ago#9
It is possible they were planning to measure his growth via how hard he had to try to beat him as opposed to actually thinking there was a chance of him failing. I don't remember it well enough to know if they actually seemed some kind of worried or seemed to think of the fight as some kind of test he was expected to pass but weren't sure by how much.
I mean, i never see the right bash the left on anything because the blame game causes more issues than anything-Josh
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