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User Info: DontDieNintendo

DontDieNintendo
2 months ago#11
Gohan is terrible in both. Just because he gets more of a powerup in one medium does not necessarily make him a better character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKH-1Qbc-2Y

User Info: Scotty_Rogers

Scotty_Rogers
2 months ago#12
DarthAya44 posted...
When Kale is part of Kefla? The same Kale who would have eliminated SSB Goku if Frieza hadn't kicked him out the way? And don't give me the "He was off guard" excuse. Goku saw what Kale did to Frieza. Which is why he went Blue from the start. .

Gohan managing to rival Kefla in that moment was Plot Induced Stupidity. We know this for sure because the manga states he had only just regained his Buu Saga power level during the ToP up to that point. And all of a sudden he's rising to Kefla's level because plot.

@Scotty_Rogers

Plot induced stupidity is when characters make mistakes because of plot, not when they get badly written power-ups. Gohan's power-up was badly written, but he still got it and was Kefla's equal. Now that he's trained more, he's even stronger than Kefla. Him struggling with Saganbo doesn't make him weaker than Kefla; it just means Saganbo is stronger than both him and Kefla.
I step away from the mic to breathe

User Info: DarthAya44

DarthAya44
2 months ago#13
Scotty_Rogers posted...
Plot induced stupidity is when characters make mistakes because of plot, not when they get badly written power-ups. Gohan's power-up was badly written, but he still got it and was Kefla's equal. Now that he's trained more, he's even stronger than Kefla. Him struggling with Saganbo doesn't make him weaker than Kefla; it just means Saganbo is stronger than both him and Kefla.

Plot Induced Stupidlity is when characters get badly written power ups. Like when Batman kicked the Spectre in the face. Or when Deathstroke took on The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Zatanna, Elongated Man, Black Canary and Green Arrow all at once and won.

Sanganbo can't be stronger than Kefla without Potara and Legendary SS being rendered meaningless.

User Info: Scotty_Rogers

Scotty_Rogers
2 months ago#14
DarthAya44 posted...
Plot Induced Stupidlity is when characters get badly written power ups.

Alright, looked it up and that's also part of the definition. But Gohan matching Kefla still happened and he's stronger now after training.

DarthAya44 posted...
Sanganbo can't be stronger than Kefla without Potara and Legendary SS being rendered meaningless.

You make Saganbo out to be fodder, but Goku had to go SSB to beat him and he even got up after taking multiple blows from Omen. And remember, Goku is significantly stronger than he was in the TOP after training with Merus. There's no issue here; Saganbo was powered up by Moro.
I step away from the mic to breathe

User Info: FlyingWindGod

FlyingWindGod
2 months ago#15
Have we considered the possibility that Kefla wasn't in tip-top shape when she fought Gohan?

Think about how odd it was for Vados to speculate out-loud to the readers that Kefla had the potential to be the strongest competitor in the tournament even though she had already seen Jiren bat away both Goku and Hit simultaneously, purely on the merits of considering Kale's immense raw strength coupled with Caulifla's finesse and fighting ability.

Now consider Krillin's musing in the following chapter about how strong Gohan had gotten, but clearly pointing out that he wasn't stronger than Goku even after watching him get trashed time and time again by Jiren.

How do we reconcile these two opposing claims? Well... think about when Goku and Vegeta fused in the manga to fight Zamasu, what was the first thing they used before fighting?
https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/9/4/2/AAXwgvAAA8xu.png
This was to account for the fact that before next chapter, neither Goku nor Vegeta could maintain a stable use of their Blue forms without taxing themselves. What did Kale do before she and Caulifla fused? Taxed herself almost completely out basically.
https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/9/4/3/AAXwgvAAA8xv.jpg
Who knows? Kefla at her peak may be enough to fight a superpowered Saganbo 1v1, but we'll never know because all we have is a weakened Kefla going up against and losing to Gohan and Vados' musings as to what her peak might've been capable of.

User Info: Ghostrain23

Ghostrain23
2 months ago#16
gohan vs 7-3 will be the best gohan fight in super once the anime drop. Unless we get a whole fight with him and kefla then it’ll prolly be that

User Info: Georgie-Porgie

Georgie-Porgie
2 months ago#17
Ghostrain23 posted...
gohan vs 7-3 will be the best gohan fight in super once the anime drop. Unless we get a whole fight with him and kefla then it’ll prolly be that
True but it won't be very good. It'll spam for 7 episodes 95% offscreen so we can focus on Goku's journey in outer space and Vegeta's training. The 7-3 fight will be Gohan running around hiding using reused stills of smoke to save art and animation time so more can be allowed to the Goku fight. Piccolo will be used as a meat shield with limbs falling off like wet paper and more holes in his body than swiss cheese. Gohan will job for most of the fight until the last 2 minutes which will have the art and animation excel to mediocre levels, where he briefly knocks 7-3 on his ass. Goku being lost + Krillin screaming + Vegeta huffing and puffing on Yardrat + Beerus and Whis eating + Moro standing around doing nothing will each have about 5x more screen time each than Gohan's fight.

Goku will fight Moro for about 4 or 5 episodes with good art and animation. Vegeta's comeback episode will be 50% everyone standing around talking and reactions with well drawn stills and 50% Vegeta kicking ass for other 50% of the episode in mostly well animated scenes and some good stills. He'll job by the end of the episode having been one shotted by Moro 7-3.

The next episode will consist of the Z Fighters (minus Goku) fighting Moro offscreen in bad art and animation. It'll only take up 10% of the ep so that's ok. 80% will focus on a recovering Goku (no Dende healing whatsoever - that would make sense) as he "hurr durr pushez past hizz limitzzz derp!!" He'll also stop Vegeta and Piccolo from blowing themselves up and saving them the last second. Vegeta gets another cool moment as he charges at Moro "I am Vegeta-sama...I am no1" only to be one shot then give Goku the last of his energy "Defeat him Kakarot, only you can. I believe in you". The final 10% will be talking about how great Goku is before we see him power up into UI.

The fans will s*** their pants from excitement even though it's all terribly executed. The final episodes will be where 99% of the shoestring budget goes to as Goku dominates Jiren- I mean Moro as everyone is gawking and talking about how great he is.

User Info: FlyingWindGod

FlyingWindGod
2 months ago#18
Georgie-Porgie posted...

True but it won't be very good. It'll spam for 7 episodes 95% offscreen so we can focus on Goku's journey in outer space and Vegeta's training. The 7-3 fight will be Gohan running around hiding using reused stills of smoke to save art and animation time so more can be allowed to the Goku fight. Piccolo will be used as a meat shield with limbs falling off like wet paper and more holes in his body than swiss cheese. Gohan will job for most of the fight until the last 2 minutes which will have the art and animation excel to mediocre levels, where he briefly knocks 7-3 on his ass. Goku being lost + Krillin screaming + Vegeta huffing and puffing on Yardrat + Beerus and Whis eating + Moro standing around doing nothing will each have about 5x more screen time each than Gohan's fight.

Goku will fight Moro for about 4 or 5 episodes with good art and animation. Vegeta's comeback episode will be 50% everyone standing around talking and reactions with well drawn stills and 50% Vegeta kicking ass for other 50% of the episode in mostly well animated scenes and some good stills. He'll job by the end of the episode having been one shotted by Moro 7-3.

The next episode will consist of the Z Fighters (minus Goku) fighting Moro offscreen in bad art and animation. It'll only take up 10% of the ep so that's ok. 80% will focus on a recovering Goku (no Dende healing whatsoever - that would make sense) as he "hurr durr pushez past hizz limitzzz derp!!" He'll also stop Vegeta and Piccolo from blowing themselves up and saving them the last second. Vegeta gets another cool moment as he charges at Moro "I am Vegeta-sama...I am no1" only to be one shot then give Goku the last of his energy "Defeat him Kakarot, only you can. I believe in you". The final 10% will be talking about how great Goku is before we see him power up into UI.

The fans will s*** their pants from excitement even though it's all terribly executed. The final episodes will be where 99% of the shoestring budget goes to as Goku dominates Jiren- I mean Moro as everyone is gawking and talking about how great he is.


It's terrifying how likely this is to happen, shot for shot when the anime resumes.

User Info: Georgie-Porgie

Georgie-Porgie
2 months ago#19
FlyingWindGod posted...
It's terrifying how likely this is to happen, shot for shot when the anime resumes.
Yep TOEI have no shame in the Goku wank. Other character moments are most likely due to them having to follow Toriyama's script - not because they want to. Piccolo and the androids will have a reduced role - 17 won't be anywhere near Blue level. That will be forgotton. Gohan's PL will fluctuate greatly...He'll be jobbed trash one minute, just under Goku and Vegeta the next. The few character moments we will get such as with Vegeta will still be overshadowed by Goku getting back on his feet.

The ToP already proved this. This arc has had issues but overall I enjoyed and it's been the best of Super by far (really not saying much I know). It does feel a lot closer to Z and it's had great moments and choreography in the manga. The anime will no doubt ruin it. I don't care how much time they allow themselves beforehand - that's just more time allocated to Goku scratching his balls then anything anyone else does...and it won't fit themselves writing into a corner before every ad break.

I'm all for DB content as in movie form or from a company other than TOEI. I can accept it being a low quality cash grab but even the anime pushes it waaaay too far. The movies and the manga at least try and have passion behind it. The anime feels like TOEI heads paying a bunch of interns with exposure and on a strict deadline with a very limited budget - Oh wait.

User Info: lilhurk1985187

lilhurk1985187
2 months ago#20
FlyingWindGod posted...
Have we considered the possibility that Kefla wasn't in tip-top shape when she fought Gohan?

Think about how odd it was for Vados to speculate out-loud to the readers that Kefla had the potential to be the strongest competitor in the tournament even though she had already seen Jiren bat away both Goku and Hit simultaneously, purely on the merits of considering Kale's immense raw strength coupled with Caulifla's finesse and fighting ability.

Now consider Krillin's musing in the following chapter about how strong Gohan had gotten, but clearly pointing out that he wasn't stronger than Goku even after watching him get trashed time and time again by Jiren.

How do we reconcile these two opposing claims? Well... think about when Goku and Vegeta fused in the manga to fight Zamasu, what was the first thing they used before fighting?
https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/9/4/2/AAXwgvAAA8xu.png
This was to account for the fact that before next chapter, neither Goku nor Vegeta could maintain a stable use of their Blue forms without taxing themselves. What did Kale do before she and Caulifla fused? Taxed herself almost completely out basically.
https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/9/4/3/AAXwgvAAA8xv.jpg
Who knows? Kefla at her peak may be enough to fight a superpowered Saganbo 1v1, but we'll never know because all we have is a weakened Kefla going up against and losing to Gohan and Vados' musings as to what her peak might've been capable of.
She was nerfed plain and simple.
When the people of a society agree that sacrificing a child is acceptable collateral damage then IMO it has
become a society that's not worth saving.
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