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  3. Goku is a cultural icon.

User Info: trollhunter2

trollhunter2
4 weeks ago#61
superman 2000 posted...
That doesn't mean Goku is suddenly more iconic than characters who've been around for 80+ years and are known by everyone of all ages.

superman 2000 posted...
You're REALLY overselling Goku. He's nowhere near the iconography of characters like Batman, Mario


Oh really?

Goku 1984

Mario 1983(officially 1981 if you count donkey kong arcade machine, but might as well use a generic character, since he wasn't really mario at this point)

I guess your logic only counts when it fits your narrative?
shadowfxd:" Vita is overpriced, has overpriced memory cards and only ports, atleast Wii U has 2 games and is about to outsell the Vita already" busted
#62
(message deleted)

User Info: superman 2000

superman 2000
4 weeks ago#63
trollhunter2 posted...
superman 2000 posted...
That doesn't mean Goku is suddenly more iconic than characters who've been around for 80+ years and are known by everyone of all ages.

superman 2000 posted...
You're REALLY overselling Goku. He's nowhere near the iconography of characters like Batman, Mario


Oh really?

Goku 1984

Mario 1983(officially 1981 if you count donkey kong arcade machine, but might as well use a generic character, since he wasn't really mario at this point)

I guess your logic only counts when it fits your narrative?


Are you playing dumb? Just because Mario isn’t as old as far more iconic characters than Goku, doesn’t mean he himself can’t be more iconic than Goku. Mario isn’t as old nor iconic as Mickey Mouse and Superman, but is still more iconic than Goku. If age was the only thing that mattered, then Darkwing Duck would be more iconic than Spongebob.
I don't hold grudges. Let's vehemently argue today and casually have a beer together tomorrow.

User Info: superman 2000

superman 2000
4 weeks ago#64
Look, it’s really this simple: When people refer to iconic characters, they’re typically referring to characters that are not only popular, but are so recognizable on a large scale that their legacy has pretty much been immortalized. Goku meets those requirements, but simply not to the same extent as characters like Bugs Bunny and Superman. EVERYONE knows about Bugs Bunny, from his New York accent to his trickster ways to his classic catch phrase to his cross-dressing tendencies. He’s legendary in what he represents, and has been for decades. He’s known by all ages.

I just don’t think Goku is quite there yet. He’s getting there, but I think the average sitcom will be quicker to reference “Dragon Ball Z” than Goku the character.
I don't hold grudges. Let's vehemently argue today and casually have a beer together tomorrow.

User Info: Drethrake

Drethrake
4 weeks ago#65
superman 2000 posted...
Look, it’s really this simple: When people refer to iconic characters, they’re typically referring to characters that are not only popular, but are so recognizable on a large scale that their legacy has pretty much been immortalized. Goku meets those requirements, but simply not to the same extent as characters like Bugs Bunny and Superman. EVERYONE knows about Bugs Bunny, from his New York accent to his trickster ways to his classic catch phrase to his cross-dressing tendencies. He’s legendary in what he represents, and has been for decades. He’s known by all ages.

I just don’t think Goku is quite there yet. He’s getting there, but I think the average sitcom will be quicker to reference “Dragon Ball Z” than Goku the character.


Agreed. Said it better than I did, lol.

And you're right. I know sitcoms well. Two and a Half Men has Jake mention "Dragonball Z" over just Goku the character.
I'm a Writer and also a Gamer.

User Info: trollhunter2

trollhunter2
4 weeks ago#66
superman 2000 posted...
trollhunter2 posted...
superman 2000 posted...
That doesn't mean Goku is suddenly more iconic than characters who've been around for 80+ years and are known by everyone of all ages.

superman 2000 posted...
You're REALLY overselling Goku. He's nowhere near the iconography of characters like Batman, Mario


Oh really?

Goku 1984

Mario 1983(officially 1981 if you count donkey kong arcade machine, but might as well use a generic character, since he wasn't really mario at this point)

I guess your logic only counts when it fits your narrative?


Are you playing dumb? Just because Mario isn’t as old as far more iconic characters than Goku, doesn’t mean he himself can’t be more iconic than Goku. Mario isn’t as old nor iconic as Mickey Mouse and Superman, but is still more iconic than Goku. If age was the only thing that mattered, then Darkwing Duck would be more iconic than Spongebob.

What makes him more iconic then? I proved to you that goku is massively popular, influential, established. Then you brought up tat goku isnt as iconic, because he isnt as old as the others. I then bring up your flawed logic, by you counting mario(which goes against your own statement i quoted ) now all you say is mario is more iconic because? Just like that? If you can't refute why goku isnt up there, then stop already. I'm not playing dumb, im debating with actual facts. Thats how debating works
shadowfxd:" Vita is overpriced, has overpriced memory cards and only ports, atleast Wii U has 2 games and is about to outsell the Vita already" busted

User Info: trollhunter2

trollhunter2
4 weeks ago#67
Definitely a certain bias going on, but whatever. Meets all requirements but isn't there
But mario is for some reason. Its useless to debate
shadowfxd:" Vita is overpriced, has overpriced memory cards and only ports, atleast Wii U has 2 games and is about to outsell the Vita already" busted

User Info: superman 2000

superman 2000
4 weeks ago#68
trollhunter2 posted...

What makes him more iconic then? I proved to you that goku is massively popular, influential, established.


You didn't "prove" that to me. I already knew.

Then you brought up tat goku isnt as iconic, because he isnt as old as the others.


I never said time was the SOLE factor, but it definitely plays an important part.

I then bring up your flawed logic, by you counting mario(which goes against your own statement i quoted ) now all you say is mario is more iconic because? Just like that?


Because Mario is simply more famous. It just is what it is. Mario's name and legacy is more wide-spread and cemented than Goku's. He's the face of the most well-known video game company in the world. Nearly all of his games are winners, and he has yet to become irrelevant even once in the past 30+ years. He's the golden standard for platforming games, to this day. Not just Nintendo's posterboy, but a mascot for video games in general.

DB as a franchise only truly exploded with Z (hardly anyone even talks about the original DB), and was pretty much dead in Japan after its original ending in 1996 (GT was not a critical success, to say the least). Western society revitalized its relevance in the late 90s/early 2000s, but even then, it once again hit a dead spot in the mid-2000s and was only being kept alive by video games for a long time. Dragon Ball just re-entered the scene 5 years ago with BoG, and since then it's been clear that TOEI wants to make it a "safer" series for marketing purposes (no more gore, blood, and extreme violence). On top of its original audience now being adults with madd nostalgia, it's no wonder the series is back with a bang. But in 5-10 years, will Super still be seen with the same reverence as, say, Mario Galaxy or Super Smash Brothers? I feel like that's the difference between popularity and iconography. DBZ wasn't a brilliant piece of literature, but it was a game-changer for its time that popularized a lot of tropes; same with Mario, Superman, and etc. THAT'S what makes DB iconic, but it just isn't on the same level of Mario.
I don't hold grudges. Let's vehemently argue today and casually have a beer together tomorrow.

User Info: the0rebirth

the0rebirth
4 weeks ago#69
superman 2000 posted...
trollhunter2 posted...

What makes him more iconic then? I proved to you that goku is massively popular, influential, established.


You didn't "prove" that to me. I already knew.

Then you brought up tat goku isnt as iconic, because he isnt as old as the others.


I never said time was the SOLE factor, but it definitely plays an important part.

I then bring up your flawed logic, by you counting mario(which goes against your own statement i quoted ) now all you say is mario is more iconic because? Just like that?


Because Mario is simply more famous. It just is what it is. Mario's name and legacy is more wide-spread and cemented than Goku's. He's the face of the most well-known video game company in the world. Nearly all of his games are winners, and he has yet to become irrelevant even once in the past 30+ years. He's the golden standard for platforming games, to this day. Not just Nintendo's posterboy, but a mascot for video games in general.

DB as a franchise only truly exploded with Z (hardly anyone even talks about the original DB), and was pretty much dead in Japan after its original ending in 1996 (GT was not a critical success, to say the least). Western society revitalized its relevance in the late 90s/early 2000s, but even then, it once again hit a dead spot in the mid-2000s and was only being kept alive by video games for a long time. Dragon Ball just re-entered the scene 5 years ago with BoG, and since then it's been clear that TOEI wants to make it a "safer" series for marketing purposes (no more gore, blood, and extreme violence). On top of its original audience now being adults with madd nostalgia, it's no wonder the series is back with a bang. But in 5-10 years, will Super still be seen with the same reverence as, say, Mario Galaxy or Super Smash Brothers? I feel like that's the difference between popularity and iconography. DBZ wasn't a brilliant piece of literature, but it was a game-changer for its time that popularized a lot of tropes; same with Mario, Superman, and etc. THAT'S what makes DB iconic, but it just isn't on the same level of Mario.


/topic
"The Dragon Ball Super anime is lowering the IQ of the characters so the DB fan base can relate to them better." -Acharyap28
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