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  3. Convince me that the looting and arson in Minneapolis is good.
I don't follow. You could as easily argue that every moment spent playing video games is poorly spent if it could be used instead to talk about the broken police system, therefore, how dare you play video games. I didn't post this topic because I thought that by posting this topic I would be doing the most I could to solve systemic racism. (The revolution will not be posted on PMS.) I posted this topic because I'm trying to make sure my ideas make sense.
If you're trying to understand why individual people choose to loot or vandalize, there might be all kinds of reasons. Maybe they're fed up and acting out of emotion. Maybe they figure the damage to property doesn't really harm anyone too much and they want to hurt oppressive corporations. Maybe they need toilet paper. Maybe they're provocateurs. There could be a whole mix of reasons at play with various levels of premeditation and coordination.

If you want to understand why other elements in the protest movement wouldn't want to condemn looting by other protestors, either on the ground or in the press -- that's what I was trying to get at. Energy that's used by the movement to stop looting is energy that can't be used to focus on fixing policing, and solving the latter problem solves the former.

User Info: ShadowSpy

ShadowSpy
1 month ago#12
Time and time again, we have seen that anger is not a "logical" process but is still a rational one. When people are angry, they lash out, they express their pain and hurt, and they might not be picking sensible targets, but they are still expressing a deep deep dissatisfaction.

I also want to vaguely gesture at a body of scientific evidence showing that mob mentality and group think is a thing. It's one thing to sit at your computer and say "This isn't a rational course of action" and a completely other thing to be part of a group who has been moved by anger to take action.
"I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific."

User Info: HeyDude

HeyDude
1 month ago#13
I don't think anybody is actually positing that looting and arson are good, Kodi. I certainly don't see it in this topic. I believe the respondents in this topic are making good reasonable points that assert firstly that looting and arson are understandable and forgiveable and that maybe we shouldn't prioritize their condemnation because there are bigger fish to fry (although I contend that for most people this is a false dichotomy). But I don't think they're actually attempting to convince you that looting and arson are good per se.

User Info: Kodiologist

Kodiologist
1 month ago#14
There is no mystery to me why people would want to smash up stores after something like this. The psychology is clear. My question is about the philosophy.

Perhaps you're right, Alex. I have always been puzzled by arguments to the effect of "don't condemn this thing, because something way worse is happening". There's always a bigger villain.

Chauvin was arrested and charged with murder today, so, progress!

User Info: Jacehan

Jacehan
1 month ago#15
I think also it can be effective? In a kind of carrot/stick kinda way. Nobody cared about the rights of the LGBTQ+ community until the Stonewall Riots.
"To truly live, one must first be born." ~ Evan [aX]
Paper Mario Social:
The Safe Haven of GameFAQs. (Board 2000083)

User Info: ShadowSpy

ShadowSpy
1 month ago#16
Trevor Noah did an off-the-cuff musing regarding the dominoes of the things that happened in the past week, and I think it's extremely relevant here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4amCfVbA_c
"I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific."

User Info: willis5225

willis5225
1 month ago#17
Jacehan posted...
I think also it can be effective? In a kind of carrot/stick kinda way. Nobody cared about the rights of the LGBTQ+ community until the Stonewall Riots.

I think looting Targets is good for this reason (though I agree that torching a precinct house or opening a detention center is more on-brand)
Willis, it seems like every other time you post, I need to look up a word that's in the OED or Urban Dictionary but not both.
-Mimir

User Info: Jacehan

Jacehan
1 month ago#18
Related: it seems there really are a lot of non-protestors causing mayhem in order to turn opinion against protestors:

https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1266742843722403840?s=20

Also, regarding the point of the workers cleaning up, often the community does that:

https://twitter.com/lolwtfnotmonica/status/1266140727358246913?s=20
"To truly live, one must first be born." ~ Evan [aX]
Paper Mario Social:
The Safe Haven of GameFAQs. (Board 2000083)

User Info: willis5225

willis5225
1 month ago#19
Also (and I have no idea how serious I am about this) if the workers have to clean it up they're getting paid for that and in that capacity riots are job creators
Willis, it seems like every other time you post, I need to look up a word that's in the OED or Urban Dictionary but not both.
-Mimir

User Info: Kodiologist

Kodiologist
1 month ago#20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window (confusingly, unrelated to the broken-windows theory of policing)
(edited 1 month ago)
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