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  3. Ideal high level monsters in Remastered

User Info: FreshFeeling

FreshFeeling
2 months ago#1
According to the guide for Fuse’s case files for the remaster, here’s a recommendation for monsters for some of the super bosses:

  • Monsters: You want your monsters at 700+ HP. They MUST have Magical Heal, Rain of Life, and Mighty Cyclone. I strongly recommend Magnetic Storm as well. My recommendations: Black Dragon, Mariche, Dullahan.


I’ve played this game quite a bit and this seems kind of absurd to me. Maybe I’ve overlooked something other people find obvious or maybe it’s because I don’t really like monsters, but here are my problems:

  • I think I’ve only got LifeRain on a monster once. Where can I reliably get that? Just unicorns? Those seem super rare to me. Is there a way to find them more easily?
  • Actually, same for MightyCyclone and MagneticStorm. Is there a good spot or method to grind these?
  • Even with Kantolin’s guide, I can’t manage a stable Dullahan, let alone with four other compulsory moves. How can I get a reasonably stable Black Dragon, Mariche or Dullahan with all these things? And which specific monsters would you seek out to get the moves to do it?
The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."
https://twitter.com/RetroFreshTV

User Info: MysticLord

MysticLord
1 month ago#2
MightyCyclone isn't really needed, you just need a good physical skill that is good in most situations, and a PurpleEye to use your JP. If you still want it, you can grind against Krakens for the harder drop, or Iceworms if you can find a good source of BR 8 insects or you're satisfied with save scumming.

LifeRain is found on WaterFolk and Unicorns. There's a repeatable max BR 7 encounter in Koorong Sewers just before the Cavern where a fairy will summon various monsters as you approach it and teleport a distance away. It can take quite a while to get it to drop, unfortunately.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/198537-saga-frontier/faqs/47745
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a bazinga.

User Info: ffvd_games

ffvd_games
1 month ago#3
MysticLord posted...
MightyCyclone isn't really needed,


but mightycyclone is haha

User Info: killerb255

killerb255
1 month ago#4
The reason Black Dragons are recommended is because they're the only monsters that'll actually survive the steroid-pumped final bosses' attacks.

Against Shadow (in the remaster Developer Room), you'll also need your Black Dragon to have some kind of barrier/veil so it doesn't get one-shotted by Scattered Petals.

User Info: FreshFeeling

FreshFeeling
1 month ago#5
A veil too? So how would you get Mighty Cyclone, Magic Heal, LifeRain, Magnetic Storm, a veil… and still maintain an adequately strong form?
The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."
https://twitter.com/RetroFreshTV

User Info: tiornys

tiornys
1 month ago#6
FreshFeeling posted...
A veil too? So how would you get Mighty Cyclone, Magic Heal, LifeRain, Magnetic Storm, a veil… and still maintain an adequately strong form?
By waiting on the last piece until you're done collecting skills for prime HP. Black Dragon form requires three skills, plus those five is a full skill list. Dullahan can also be done with three skills. Mariche (and GriffinJr) would have to compromise and drop a skill.

There's not really such a thing as a stable single monster form while absorbing skills; what you want to aim for is some sort of dual form monster until you're ready to put together your final skill list. If you read through all of Kantolin's thread you may have already seen my thoughts on dual form monsters:
--Dual Form Monsters
My thoughts on dual forms (which echo a lot of what Zaraktheus says in the Data/Mechanics Guide):

The most stable (but not necessarily best) way to do a dual form is with two table 1 forms. Unfortunately the strong table 1 forms (Dullahan, Mariche, GriffinJr) all require 4+ skills that are mostly mediocre, so this can’t be used to reliably swap between two top forms. Sphinx or Kylin plus GriffinJr or Mariche are probably the best ways to use this method. The only way to fail to alternate between these two forms is by absorbing a skill that qualifies you for a different table 1 form.

The best way to do a dual form with two top forms is by using two table 2 forms that do NOT share an ability. This way, no matter what ability is covered by a new absorb, at least one of the two forms is available. You can still become a different form by absorbing something that qualifies you for an earlier table 2 form. This method has a lot of good options, including but not limited to Black Dragon/Suzaku, Crystal Tree/Suzaku, Suzaku/Chimera, Chimera/Dullahan, and Chimera/Kraken, all of which take 4 skill slots or less. Nearly as good is Dullahan/Kraken; this DualForm takes 5 skills but one can be Mighty Cyclone and therefore something you should want anyway.

Next best is having a table 1 and a table 2 form. This is stable going back to the table 1 form, but it risks having the table 2 form blocked whenever you're coming off the table 1 form. I like this plan best when the table 2 form is Black Dragon, Ice Worm, Crystal Tree, Suzaku, Chimera, or Rock Scout since all of those let you use LifeRain to have Unicorn as a third “emergency” form option.

Finally, having two table 2 forms that share an ability is good for saving slots but risks having the shared ability blocked. You can live with that, or you can try to include an emergency third option. One example is Black Dragon/Crystal Tree which can use Unicorn as an emergency option.
Black Dragon is easy with several options. Probably the best long-term is to use Suzaku as a backup form via Flaming Veil, which can also be your barrier skill for Shadow.

Mariche is a little trickier. I favor adding Shockwave which gives you Rock Scout as a backup form (make sure Petrifying Gaze is above the other gazes) and Unicorn as a fallback form via Rain of Life. Flaming Veil can also work.

To have Dullahan as the primary form in a dual form monster, you're either spending 5 skill slots on its table 1 form (bad), alternating with a different table 1 form, or have Kraken from Mighty Cyclone and Ink as your backup form. You can only use Kraken as a backup to Dullahan until you have enough prime HP to raise Kraken's HP above 995, at which point there is no way to have table 2 Dullahan as primary with a decent table 2 form as backup (having 996+ HP and Deathsynthesis = you will be a Skeleton Knight with any non-body absorb). At that point you'll have to decide if you want to live with the occasional visit to Skeleton Knight or Liquid Metal (where you're likely to end up with a body absorb from Kraken), or to treat Dullahan as a backup form instead.

Dullahan should be built with Burning Smash if you want to minimize the newly absorbed skills that will knock you out of the form. Hypnosis and Crippling Gaze are the safest head skills to build him with, but are also the weakest options. Charming Gaze is safe if you already have Magical Heal and have it buried under some other magic skill, otherwise this will make Unicorn block Dullahan (note Rain of Life also causes Unicorn to block Dullahan). Petrifying Gaze is the strongest option but opens you up to interference from Basilisk. I'd still go with Petrifying Gaze.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: FreshFeeling

FreshFeeling
1 month ago#7
You are wonderful, thanks.
Though I was kind of seeking answers in the form of “do this, fight this, get this” you’ve definitely given me something to go on: Suzaku are dead easy to find consistently, so grab fire barrier and make a fairly good table 1 dual form for HP absorption until I’m ready to get serious and commit to something great like Black Dragon or Dullahan with maybe 3 skills after I’m completely done absorbing/building HP.

Is that a reasonable synthesis?
The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."
https://twitter.com/RetroFreshTV

User Info: tiornys

tiornys
1 month ago#8
Basically yes, although Black Dragon is an absolutely fine choice for building HP (it's early in the last section of table 2 so it has lots of decent-good backup options). As mentioned above I'd likely go for Black Dragon/Suzaku. Black Dragon/Unicorn (from Rain of Life) is also viable and also uses one of your final goal skills.

User Info: Ajogamer

Ajogamer
1 month ago#9
FreshFeeling posted...
You are wonderful, thanks.
Though I was kind of seeking answers in the form of “do this, fight this, get this” you’ve definitely given me something to go on: Suzaku are dead easy to find consistently, so grab fire barrier and make a fairly good table 1 dual form for HP absorption until I’m ready to get serious and commit to something great like Black Dragon or Dullahan with maybe 3 skills after I’m completely done absorbing/building HP.

Is that a reasonable synthesis?

I'd probably suggest getting Fang and TailHit/Tail Swipe (2 of the 3 skills needed for Black Dragon) sooner rather than later, at least, since those tend to be much easier to obtain at lower battle ranks (or if you're using Riki as your monster, he'll even start with the latter). StoneGas/Petrifying Gas can potentially wait, since CrystalTrees will always be easy to find as the very first encounter in the BioLab soon as your BR's high enough, but I'd personally prefer getting Black Dragon sooner, and holding off on one of those other skills, instead.

User Info: SkankinGarbage

SkankinGarbage
1 month ago#10
Hey there, OP. I wrote the guide. Let me clarify a few things:

  1. I recommend the Black Dragon in particular because a big issue that Monsters come up against in the super final boss fights is that their defense is too low. Or, even if their defense is adequate, they decided to give almost every boss WindBlast (or whatever the hell it's called in the remaster), which makes some monsters (esp. Mariche and GriffinJr) unusable in those fights anyways. Black Dragon both has the highest defense, and the highest LP of all the high-level monster forms, making it the most ideal support monster. You can get away with other monsters in some fights (Red's super final boss comes to mind), but for the most part, they just can't hang.
  2. In all fairness, my guide was written to specifically avoid the most "broken" moves in the game. None of my strategies use DSC, Time Leap, or multiple characters with AoE heals (I've finished every boss with just one support character). But, if you really just want to beat them, you don't need to prepare nearly as much - you can just use Time Leap spam on basically all of them except the Ninja (Phantom or Shadow or whatever it's name is, I always forget).
  3. Likewise, my strategy for the special final boss (where the "broken" stuff doesn't work, anyways) is one of two major strategies. You could very easily just get several people with good AoE heals, tank up, and blast it until it dies, although this takes very long. My strategy is very fast and moderately high risk; you'll know immediately if you're going to win or lose. But, there's more than one way to skin a cat.


As for the monster skills:

Rain of Life can be found on Unicorns. Once you hit a certain BR (I think 7?), you can always find them in the last room of the sewer before the Natural Cave, where there are three Fairy enemies that turn into Boars when you get close. If you run into them as Fairies before they transform, you'll encounter a Unicorn every time, making it the ideal spot to fair both Magical Heal and Rain of Life.

Maelstrom can be found on Crystal Trees, which is the Max BR plant enemy. Thus, you can always find them in the Bio Lab at the end of the game, assuming you've leveled up enough. This is the best general purpose AoE; there are stronger ones, but they are either much harder to get, or certain enemies can be immune to them.

Mighty Cyclone can be found on Krakens, which is the Max BR Aquatic enemy. You can always find them in Yorkland swamp at the end of the game, assuming you've leveled up enough. This is, flat-out, the strongest single-target damage a Monster can do, but it's also very important because of how easily it combos with most abilities. So, there's virtually no comparison to be made; if you want to get big damage with your monster, this is the way to go.

And, finally, to answer your question, "So how would you get Mighty Cyclone, Magic Heal, LifeRain, Magnetic Storm, a veil… and still maintain an adequately strong form?"

The nice thing about the Totally Ultimate Black Dragon is that it's pretty damn stable:

Almost every ability you get aside from the three needed for the form itself (Fang, Tail, Stone Gas) are Magical abilities. Since the table only uses the first ability of each type it comes across, you'll only qualify for forms using one of the several magical abilities (MagneticStorm, MightyCyclone, Magical Heal, Rain of Life).

Aside from that, most of the abilities you get can't qualify you for other Monster forms by themselves:

MagneticStorm: Won't qualify you for anything unless you absorb Arctic Breath.

MightyCyclone: Won't qualify you for anything unless you absorb Ink.

Magical Heal: Won't qualify you for anything unless you absorb Charm Gaze.

Rain of Life: This could qualify you for UnicornJr., but it's a Magical ability, so if you put another magical ability above it on the skills list (e.g Magnetic Storm or MightyCyclone), it will never be used by the transformation table in the first place.

And, lastly, if you get the barrier ability CounterFear, that skill doesn't qualify you for any forms. In fact, the only Barrier that could qualify you for a form all on its own is Fire Barrier, and that would get you Suzaku - not exactly the worst alt form you could have!

Thus, you'd have a Black Dragon with the following abilities:

StoneGas
Tail
Fang
MightyCyclone
MagneticStorm
Magical Heal
Rain of Life
CounterFear/Bolt Barrier/Fire Barrier

Making a stable form that has the best offensive abilities, the two major support abilities (i.e the main selling point of Monsters), and a Barrier ability to break up combo attacks, on the highest-defense monster in the game, with the most LP of any viable endgame monster. This is about as optimized as it gets.
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