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User Info: Adeptus_Momarus

Adeptus_Momarus
1 year ago#1
This is half for discussion with anyone else around and half so I have something to reference for things to try when I come back to the game in a year or however long after finishing my current run.

A lot of the level up stat assignments could use some tweaking for a simple way to balance. Most of the possible frontliner classes outside of BK, Paladin, and SM could use an extra point of dex, strength, or both to help keep them from falling behind later in the game. The same goes for most large classes. Mid chapter 4 my stronger paladins hit harder than a cerberus. Adding str and dex equivalent to the cerberus getting +1 to each for each level as a cerberus made it slightly out perform a single paladin at least.

I might try using the power of cheats next play through to approximate improved leveling stats for freyas, cataphracts, and other weaker classes and see how well it works out. Unfortunately, I'd need a mod or something to add the same bonuses to the enemy. Which is too bad because I think that evening out class power would go a decent way to making the later game more challenging.

If they ever make a new game or revamp this, something that introduces more non-frontal fights or otherwise messes with unit formation would spice up the game nicely. It would also indirectly improve classes like NM and freya, which I think are supposed to be designed to be decent from any angle but since side or back fights almost never happen for the player as is they mostly lose out to the classes like paladin and archmage that are more focused back or front liners.

The monster improving leader classes are in a bit of a hard place. If their effect was improved it could help large units stay relevant late game, but then you end up with a situation where the large units are only good with the appropriate leader, limiting composition viability. Most of the classes are underwhelming just as a class as well. Enchanters in particular are in an odd spot since they need to be in front for 3 attacks, but then they aren't hiding behind the golem(s). Dragon masters aren't terrible, but suffer from a lack of strong thrusting weapons in the game. For beastmasters I'd like to see something like most whips having a status effect attached so they can stay weaker than most other classes but still have a space to occupy.

The flying system from the SNES ogre battle was better than the current one I think. It's hard to make flying units that really feel different from each other game to game, but setting it up so a wyvern or whatever could "carry" one or two small units would help free up the possibilities.

The evil monster classes (goblins, ogres, saturos, vampire) aren't actually that strong and should be available earlier than they are. I might still try using cheats to pick them up early for a bad guy army run. They could also use some promotion classes both to keep up as options for the player and provide challenge in the later game. Seeing a bunch of goblins late game is just sad.

User Info: XTeamChinaX

XTeamChinaX
1 year ago#2
without cheating I didn’t know you could get goblins & Ogres??.

User Info: DragonBlood87

DragonBlood87
1 year ago#3
You can. Goblins, IIRC, can only be obtained with the Love & Peace item (and are totally not worth it), but I think Ogres show up as a neutral encounter somewhere late in the game, though I don't recall what map off the top of my head.
Atheism - A non-prophet organization.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits

User Info: Kuuko

Kuuko
1 year ago#4
It's just Saturos that are Love & Peace only. And they're not really worth it but kind of cool. They can be a unit leader for an all-demon unit if you want. You can get Goblins, Gorgons, and Ogres from Neutral Encounters. Ogres only appearing relatively late in the game at Tybell.
http://i.imgur.com/dzGMd.png

User Info: skin_eater98

skin_eater98
1 year ago#5
Adeptus_Momarus you are trying to study the character attributes and mention level-up stat assignments. How is it you are studying this? I have been on a game run sparingly using stat-booster items- more frequently since I've gotten past Scene 37, where I am now training characters beyond levels in the thirties and forties; and I have been changing many characters' classes frequently, trying to perfect their own styles of fighting, focusing a lot on agility.
You mention using a game modifier to allow enemies the same boost in attributes, but surely that would be difficult to do...?

User Info: DragonBlood87

DragonBlood87
1 year ago#6
skin_eater98 posted...
Adeptus_Momarus you are trying to study the character attributes and mention level-up stat assignments. How is it you are studying this? I have been on a game run sparingly using stat-booster items- more frequently since I've gotten past Scene 37, where I am now training characters beyond levels in the thirties and forties; and I have been changing many characters' classes frequently, trying to perfect their own styles of fighting, focusing a lot on agility.
You mention using a game modifier to allow enemies the same boost in attributes, but surely that would be difficult to do...?

It's actually not too difficult to do, though it involves ROM-hacking. I've already got the relevant addresses laid out in some of the files available here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/198230-ogre-battle-64-person-of-lordly-caliber/78102724

So, you just use a hex editor (I recommend HxD) and change the values at the indicated addresses.
Atheism - A non-prophet organization.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits

User Info: Ashanark

Ashanark
1 year ago#7
On the whole, different types of terrain movement is an underused mechanic. The ability for large characters to "carry" smaller ones (kind of like MotBQ) would make it MUCH more valuable. MotBQ had stuff like hidden towns which made exploration more important and so different movement types were incentivized. Adding time limits or objectives requiring (or favoring) groups better in certain terrains would be fun. It'd encourage more usage of L-characters and change up formations.

Legions are presented like they're supposed to be an advanced technique but they bring nothing beneficial to the table. Making their movement mechanics better and giving them a more obvious combat advantage would make it more likely for players to use them. Single units would be more maneuverable but legions would be more powerful so there'd be a tradeoff. (My crazy idea is that when a legion fights, the group that engages gets supported by a column of each group next to it. So instead of fighting with a group on a 3x3 box, it's a 5x3 box.)

Enemy groups that can resurrect their leaders would be nice...

I agree, jack-of-all-trades units like Valkyries suffer because getting hit from the side or back is so rare-- and often when it does happen, you can see it coming long enough to change your group formation anyway so the group isn't really fighting out-of-formation. (Imagine OB64 with no pauses and no changing the formation of deployed units... yikes!) I'm not sure how we'd force more back-attacks though without ambushes, and those would be very situational and possibly annoying, not natural aspects of battle.

If PoLC was like LUCT and any class could equip almost any item (just not necessarily effectively) then that'd add another layer of customization. A Dragon Tamer may still prefer thrusting swords but could still wallow on people with Notos. You could give Freyas wizard staves to boost their INT and make them dedicated Lawful spellcasters.

As rough as this sounds... I'd want fewer nonhumans, too. Or rather, more specialized nonhumans. Come endgame there's really nothing any Hawkmen, beast, golem, or dragon can do which a human can't do (comparatively) better... so why are there so many types of them? Fewer and stronger, I say. Those venerable dragons should be matching the output of two humans for them to be worth the price! This would make the monster-improving classes more worthwhile as well.

User Info: DragonBlood87

DragonBlood87
1 year ago#8
Ashanark posted...
I'm not sure how we'd force more back-attacks though without ambushes, and those would be very situational and possibly annoying, not natural aspects of battle.

One possible way to have that come up in a spin-off game would be to make it so that an off-terrain unit attacking a unit on its preferred terrain (e.g., a Plains unit attacking a Forest unit in a forest) has a chance to get ambushed.
Atheism - A non-prophet organization.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits
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