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User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#1
Before playing OB 64, did you play OB MotBQ? and perhaps you are familiar with "Deathlike2's Ogre Battle Unit Analysis"
And maybe you wondered 'why is there no Unit Analysis faq for OB 64?'

So I started analyzing stats in OB 64, and while I don't have a complete guide here... I am sure you will learn something new, and perhaps we can delve into this deeper.

Explaining Stats gained per level:
You have seen the stats each character gets each level on such sites as: http://gouraudpalm.deviantart.com/art/OB64-Class-database-v1-210449692
What exactly do these stats per level mean?
For example a Fighter is listed as gaining 4 Str per level up.
What that means is there is a 50% chance on level up he gains 4 Str.
There is a 25% chance on level up he gains 3 Str (-1).
and a 25% chance on level up to gain 5 Str (+1).

Can we Predict starting character Stats?
Both Amazon and Fighters have a base Str of 50
So at Lvl 2 they have a:
1/4 chance of being 53,
2/4 chance of being 54, and
1/4 chance of being 55 Str.
What about at Lvl 3, which is the level they are when we get them?
At Lvl 3:
1/16 chance of being 56
4/16 chance of being 57
5/16 chance of being 58
4/16 chance of being 59
1/16 chance of being 60
Keep in mind this is before we add in a Amazon/Fighter Weapons which add (+3 Str) on their own.

Why do my promoted Fighters/Amazon Stats Suck?
Your promoted L3 Fighters/Amazon will have the following stats:

So on average (+/-2) a L3 Fighter (a promoted Soldier) will start with:
Strength: 58 (+3 from weapon)
Vitality: 56
Intellect: 46
Mentality: 52
Agility: 46
Dexterity: 51

And on average (+/-2) a L3 Amazon (a promoted Soldier) will start with:
Str: 58 (+3)
Vit: 49
Int: 51
Men: 54 (+2)
Agi: 56
Dex: 58

There is nothing I know of that can be done to get awesome Promoted Amazon/Fighters... What determines the Lvl of the promoted Amazon/Fighter seems to be determined by the average level of all your characters, which is why you can have a lvl 5 leader have a lvl 10 promoted Amazon/Fighter.

Why are my starting Fighters and Amazons Stats so good?
So you already know that the questions in the beginning determine the 4 class leaders of the 4 starting units which is covered in sukarikun's Starting Army Guide.
What this guide DOESN't detail is the fact that whether the leader of the 1st group is a 'Warrior','Healer','Mage', or 'Trainer' influences the Stats of EVERYONE in your starting army including Magnus himself (excluding Dio's Unit).

Now Your Starting Army Stat Are Increased base on who your 1st unit leader is:
Warrior = 'Knight': +7 Str, +6 Vit, +2 Int, +4 Men, +2 Agi, +4 Dex
Magic = 'Sorcerer': +2 Str, + 2 Vit, +8 Int, +6 Men, +4 Agi, +8 Dex
Healer = 'Cleric': +3 Str, +3 Vit, +6 Int, +8 Men, +7 Agi, +6 Dex
Trainer = 'Beast T.':+6 Str, +8 Vit, +4 Int, +2 Men, +5 Agi, +2 Dex
[These # are estimates, since I didn't do enough testing to figure it out exactly, plus I believe it's not a flat # that is added its a range like +(6-8) ]

Bottom line is make the most out of your starting units! they have awesome stats!
For example it's Rare but occasionally if you start 'Healer' or 'Magic' it is possible to get a L3 Fighters that can be promoted to L3 Ninja's (52 Agi, 59 Dex) (once you get the Ninja Outfit).
Also Rare but occasionally if you start 'Healer' or 'Magic' it is possible to get a L3 Amazon that can be promoted to L3 Cleric (59 Int, 62 Men).

Items that increase stats "Stone of Quickness" "Mirror of Souls"... increase by 2-4, so make the best use of them on your lvl 3 Fighters/Amazon, help them get the stats they need to promote them right away so they get better stats per level. And Save one L3 to be Lich!
(message deleted)

User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#3
If you are using Project 64 Emulator and Save States:

The Stats for Magnus and the stats for the 1st and 2nd Units are rolled right after you select your element type "Fire, Water, Wind, Earth" (the last question you are given) -- so do a save state before answering that question.

Dio and the 3rd and 4th units Stats are rolled right After Hugo tells Dio and Might to get along... so do a save state before their dialog finishes and Mission 1 starts.

User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#4
I just wanted to cover an example To hopefully Explain this even better:

I will be using this website as the example: http://lparchive.org/Ogre-Battle-64/Update%2003/
Specifically the Screenshot showing Marty -- which you can find if you search for "Marty's STR"
and also Specifically the Screenshot showing 'Shion' -- search for "throwing"

In this documented play-through the players got the 'Warrior' = Knight in 1st unit.
And you will notice his starting Wizard 'Marty' has high Str and Low Int and he changes him to a Fighter...

So lets calculate the Stats we expect for all starting Male Classes to have, and see why Marty the starting Wizard has such high starting Strength... and low Starting Int.

Since He started 'Warrior' We Expect All Starting Male Classes (Fighter,Knight,Wizard...) to have:
Str: 58 (+7) (+/- 2) = 63-67
Vit: 56 (+6) (+/- 2) = 60-64
Int: 46 (+2) (+/- 2) = 46-50
Men: 52 (+4) (+/- 2) = 54-58
Agi: 46 (+2) (+/- 2) = 46-50
Dex: 51 (+4) (+/- 2) = 53-57

Marty is a Wizard so he is wearing a:
Scripplay Staff, Spellbook, Robe, and Amulet
Which together contribute: Str + 1, Int + 8

Now based on the Screenshot Marty has
Str: 68 (-1) = 67
Vit: 64
Int: 56 (-8) = 48
Men: 54
Agi: 47
Dex: 56

So Marty is in the Range we expect for a starting L3 Male...

Now using the same Website the screenshot with the starting L3 Knight 'Shion' shows:
Str: 72 (-5) = 67
Vit: 60
Int 50 (-3) = 47
Men: 53
Agi: 48
Dex: 55
Taking into account his gear: Baldr Sword, Plate Armor, Kite Shield, Armet = (+3 Int, +5 Str)

Which is again in the range we expect, except for Men is 1 point lower than the range.

User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#5
For Fighters/Amazons that are promoted from Soldiers, since we know their starting stat values and range of growth per level, we can calculate the expected level that they can be promoted to an advanced class:

What Lvl a Fighter can be promoted:

Note: Ninja get Better stat growth than Fighter, so no matter what you want a character to be, if he can be promote to Ninja, DO IT!

<Class Name> <Stats Needed>: <Earliest Lvl #>, <Average Lvl #>, <Latest Lvl #>

Ninja (62 Agi, 59 Dex): L5, L6, L11
Wizard (57 Int, 63 Men): L6, L7, L10
Berserker/Knight/Beast Master (72 Str, 67 Vit): L6, L7, L10
Fencer (72 Str, 62 Dex): L6, L7, L10
Doll Master (60 Int, 66 Men, 65 Dex): L6, L8, L11
Centurion (52 Vit, 62 Int, 52 Men, 54 Dex): L7, L9, L12

What Lvl an Amazon can be promoted:

Note: Cleric get Better stat growth than Amazon, so always if you can promote to Cleric, do that 1st... only exception is Str stat, which Archer Needs but Dragon Tamer generally needs Vit more than Str so even if going Dragon Tamer you might want to go Cleric 1st if possible.

<Class Name> <Stats Needed>: <Earliest Lvl #>, <Average Lvl #>, <Latest Lvl #>

Cleric (59 Int, 62 Men): L5, L6, L8
Sorcerer (62 Int, 65 Men): L6, L7, L9
Archer (72 Str, 69 Dex): L6, L7, L10
Dragon Tamer (72 Str, 57 Vit, 64 Dex): L6, L7, L10
Witch (65 Int, 68 Men): L6, L8, L11
Valkyrie (72 Str, 57 Vit, 62 Int): L6, L7, L10
Centurion (52 Vit, 62 Int, 52 Men, 54 Dex): L6, L7, L9

Here the average stats, so you can compare how your guy is compared to average:

Average Stats of Male (no gear)
Male 345678


User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#6
Hmm not sure how to paste a table the tabs got deleted

User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#7
L1 Golem Stats:
str 62
vit 79
int 31
men 33
agi 33
dex 40

L1 Young Dragon Stats:
str 78
vit 72
int 55
men 75
agi 45
dex 58

L1 Wyrm Stats:
str 78
vit 72
int 54
men 75
agi 62
dex 52

These #'s all based off the L2 neutrals found on 1st map.

User Info: Uryvichk

6 years ago#8
That's interesting. I didn't know the stat growth was variable like that. When you say "promoted Fighters/Amazons" I presume you mean from Soldiers, right?

User Info: downlownick

6 years ago#9
Sorry for the confusion, Yes "promoted Fighters/Amazons" = when they just became Fighter/Amazon from Soldier.
As apposed to the Fighters/Amazons that you start with in your initial 3 unit groups.

Yeah the stat growth is variable, if your on the Project64 emulator you can do savestate right before killing blow happens and will get different stat results.

OB MotBQ Stat Growth for comparison:
For optimizing stat growth in OB MotBQ the most important piece of info is recruit them as low level as possible, this is because : "a unit will gain 1 point more for all stats on average [per level] than one you recruit [who leveled before they joined you]." - Deathlike2 OB:MotBQ Unit Analysis GAME_FAQ
So what that means is an imp recruited @ lvl 6 will have an average of (6-1)=5 less agi/str/int... than an imp obtained at lvl 1 (from an 'egg of wonder') who leveled 5 times, and who is now lvl 6.

Similarities between OB 64 and OB MotBQ:
The growth of each stat in MotBQ is also a range such as: 1-3, 2-4, 3-5 or 4-6.
I never tested to see what the probability of getting each value is in MotBQ, not sure if it is also 25%, 50%, 25% (as it is in OB:64) or just a flat 33% to all.

User Info: Uryvichk

6 years ago#10
It should be possible then to be able to tell what the lowest possible level is for a character to reach a certain class, right? Both promoted and starter, with the starters obviously generally having a significant head start.

How about special characters like Ankiseth? I presume when he's recruited (or at some point prior) his stats are calculated based on his join level and his growth averages, so there should be some variability for special characters. But then I think they also get boosts just for being special... or maybe that's only characters with generic classes like Asnabel and Meredia. Not that pretty much any mage character will surpass a Meredia recruited at a low level since she'll get Siren growths during periods of time where other characters would've been Amazons/Witches/Sorceresses.

I've never really tried to manipulate level-up growths because I've only ever played OB64 on an actual console.
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