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  3. SPOILERS GALORE!!!!! Why don't they have super human strength?

User Info: MsRenndilya

4 weeks ago#11
You guys seem to not remember that the game literally has the machines blowing up after fights in story scenes. Meaning according to PLOT(what this topic is only about) normal strength humans that can't force a rope off their wrist can survive attacks and injure military machines. Granted that machine does say(Cloud does) that if their we're any members of SOLDIER fighting them that Barrett wouldn't be standing still. That's referenced in a scene. So we have established by some plot scenes that SOLDIER members are supposedly superhuman. However, not superhuman enough because Cloud(he never joined but his newly enhanced body is built like a SOLDIER) never expresses any level of superhuman power according to plot scenes. Only in Advent Children do the characters have any semblance of superhuman might. Even Tifa can pick up entire church pews(which weigh 350 or lbs) and slam them on Loz at high velocity. Meaning she has to have insane superhuman ability to do so. This is in the movie where Tifa said that all of them forgot their strength for fighting that they all had in the original adventure too. This tells me that this superhuman level Tifa in AC that can pick up 350lbs with one hand and through it is somehow WEAKER(haha) than the Tifa that got overpowered by ropes in FFVII. That totally makes sense. As for Clouds Buster Sword it weights 106lbs at least the full sized to scale one does. The amount of strength one would have to possess to twirl that 106lbs with a few fingers(again a pose that is referenced in story with the grunts after Cloud shares his victory pose) at that speed is insane. He should have been able to pick up the tank but he couldn't because logic-holes. Twirling 106lbs with the fingers on one hand is harder than lifting 106lbs with you entire body. I can pick up only 25lbs at most with one hand. However, I can dead lift 154lbs that's a 7x difference between strength in one arm to strength in a large portion of my body. 106 x 7= 742lbs. Hmm maybe cloud has magical fingertips.. who knows.

I don't know why people keep saying that I'm comparing gameplay to story.. the topic was clearly about the foes they fight in plot. With the monsters mentioned in literal plot scenes.

Sadly though when I realize such logic holes in games or stories in general I end up not liking them. Too bad FFVII had a chance to properly express it's characters strength but it dropped the ball.

At least the Warriors of Light from FF1 are never shown to be weaklings thank goodness. The only obstacle that ever hinders them is the Mystical Doors. But considering the fact that the doors are literally sealed by magical enhancements that needs equal enhancement type to open them makes sense. The Warrior of Light>Cloud by a long shot.

User Info: manmouse

4 weeks ago#12
A few things:

-materia grants special abilities, so a well-equipped character should be able to survive in otherwise deadly conditions

-in some of the imprisonment situations, like the gas chamber, it would make sense that, plot-wise, Tifa’s been de-equipped

-there’s also reasonable restraint. Sometimes accepting defeat is the most humane option when you can otherwise overpower your enemies. Like, yes, Cloud and co could resist arrest at the Gold Saucer, but then how many people would they have to kill? All the guards would think you’re guilty, so they’d put up one hell of a fight for a righteous reason, and you would have to kill them all. Easier to get arrested in that scenario, unfortunately. The real perpetrator there is a broken justice system that forced you into a lose-lose situation.

-as for the Shinra building capture, bear in mind that you’re at lower levels, and you’re looking at a situation where Shinra really does have the upper hand and are in control at that point.
So, first let’s say you escape your ropes. But then Shinra also has the Turks there as we see, and you’re actually facing a challenge there. Plus with them in control, they can bombard you with Reno, Rude, and all the grunts they can throw at you at once. You lose.

-lastly, Cloud’s got superior strength to a normal human, but not DBZ/superhero strength. If he has a rope around him, there’s nothing indicating he can just flex and break it. That’s not really reasonable to expect, especially when standard industrial rope can handle hundreds if not thousands of pounds, and on top of that it’s wrapped around you multiple times AND when you’re restrained you can’t generate momentum or force which is what it would take to break them.

User Info: loseless

4 weeks ago#13
If you people want to talk about realism: there's no way any kind of metal weapon could break a machine before breaking themselves. Not even steel alloy or diamond weapons could hit machines several times without breaking. Not to mention punching and shooting them.

But we have to forget the rules in which our reality is grounded and accept that games have their own logic.

And how can characters not break ropes and break machines? Plot convenience. Same as in movies or series. If you need to go from A to B and cannot figure a good way to explain, just bullsh** your way through.

Lazy writing is the foundation in which mass entertainment is built upon. There's nothing wrong with FFVII, Game of Thrones or Star Wars. So stop asking questions and conform to the mediocrity.

User Info: manmouse

4 weeks ago#14
The reference to them not surviving if there were SOLDIERS members can also pertain to training. Imagine a rag tag group of criminals breaking into a building and someone asks if there were any enhanced Green Berets or Navy SEALs there and one of them replies that they’d all be dead if there were.

Now, this implication alone doesn’t need to imply that they can fly, lift cars, do DBZ stuff, etc.
For one there’s training alone. A rag-tag group of criminals would easily be dealt with by special forces from almost any military especially on the forces’ home turf. The tactics, stealth skills, precision, hand-to-hand training, gun training, mental clarity would all be superior and lead to them winning.

But on top of that, being enhanced isn’t some all-or-nothing DBZ factor. They can have, let’s say:
-skin that’s simply harder to tear. Still does tear, but with maybe twice as much force or cutting power needed
-bones that need double the pressure to break
-quicker thinking, enhanced concentration and awareness
-muscles that maybe out-perform a beefed up steroid user, even if they can’t just casually lift a truck

User Info: DevsBro

4 weeks ago#15
Yes, the monsters exist in cutscene.

And you take them down in gameplay.
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User Info: Raiu

4 weeks ago#16
MsRenndilya posted...
You guys seem to not remember that the game literally has the machines blowing up after fights in story scenes. Meaning according to PLOT(what this topic is only about) normal strength humans that can't force a rope off their wrist can survive attacks and injure military machines.

.... again, what does them being "normal strength" have to do with it? Being able to survive an attack is endurance/armor, not strength, and being able to damage military machines depends on the weapons they're using (many of which are of magical or otherworldly material - or they're guns).
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