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  3. Who will represent the antagonist role for FFT in DFFOO?

User Info: ZenTea

ZenTea
1 month ago#51
Delita most likely, but having played through the game again recently ( last iOS sale all FF titles were 50% off so it’s fresh in my memory) I’d be OK with Saint Ajora if she’s in her High Seraph form.

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User Info: _Sanaki_

_Sanaki_
1 month ago#52
GRyda posted...
Ultima is the main antagonist of FF Tactics. I’d prefer Delita but he wasn’t an antagonist to Ramza in Tactics. They weren’t at any point enemies, even though they were both fighting for different reasons.

I mean, at no point does Jecht himself actually fight the party, it’s all Yu Yevon acting through him. Yet he’s still the main villain of FFX in NT.

Ultima also isn’t the main villain of FFT. She’s the main goal. The main villain is arguably the other five Lucavi. Delita isn’t the main villain, but that’s kind of irrelevant. The guy is popular, and that’s really all they’re going to care about.

The only issue I see with Ultima is Alma. With others you could plausibly have the human and the Lucavi working in tandem. Alma... not a willing host, and she’s kind of important though to justify her own spot. So I’m not sure how they’d want to approach that. Probably just a two characters can’t occupy the same spot, but story wise it presents a problem.
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User Info: ScrappyDingo

ScrappyDingo
1 month ago#53
_Sanaki_ posted...
I mean, at no point does Jecht himself actually fight the party, it’s all Yu Yevon acting through him
Pretty sure in the end Jecht decides to fight them so that they can kill him and get to Yu.

Yes, they have to fight him, but Jecht still decides to fight Tidus after talking to him.
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User Info: _Sanaki_

_Sanaki_
1 month ago#54
ScrappyDingo posted...
Pretty sure in the end Jecht decides to fight them so that they can kill him and get to Yu.

Yes, they have to fight him, but Jecht still decides to fight Tidus after talking to him.

Given that there is the Talk command which is used to bring Jecht to his senses which makes him less aggressive that doesn’t seem accurate. It’s less he wants to fight them and more “you have to finish me, I can’t stop this”. It’s what happens to the other Aeon’s after you beat Jecht. They’re clearly paralleled.

“Talk” during battle with Jecht…
Tidus: I won’t lose! (Tidus’ voice seems to affect Jecht. Jecht’s power decreases.)
Tidus: You won’t beat me this time! (Jecht seems torn. Jecht’s power decreases.)

At best? Based on the context it sounds less like “this is what I want” and more like “this is what must happen”. What Jecht wants isn’t a factor here. He’s a victim.
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User Info: igor140

igor140
1 month ago#55
how is this discussion of FFX still going on...?

jecht is tidus' PERSONAL antagonist, but definitely not the primary antagonist of the game. that's obviously yu yevon and the high maesters who kept spira mired in the spiral of decay for over a thousand years. that's... it.

and the FFT this is very similar: altima is the primary antagonist of the plot and delita is the antagonist of the "old money" (dycebarg, goltana, et al)... but WIEGRAF is the most direct nemesis to the party.

ramza was born to a noble family, but was the bastard son of... a maid...? someone. so while he is OF the nobility, he is not defined by them and chooses not to think like them. this makes him very naive at first, and he has a brutally rude awakening at the end of the first chapter. even then, he chooses to use his power and as a pseudo-noble to aid the people of ivalice, regardless of their social status. in a sense, the personal crucible of seeing teta and delita "die" wakes him from his ignorance of social class and empowers him to simply follow his own sense of justice and righteousness.

by contrast, wiegraf is a natural born commoner. he is (presumably, though this is never shown) afforded no comfort or wealth growing up, and is then disregarded by the nobles he fought so hard to defend. so he rises up and begins to undermine and overthrow them indiscriminately, with no regard for personality or political affiliation; he only cares about social status. in a sense, his blind vendetta turns him into the very thing that he is trying to destroy.

the fact that, in both games, the personal antagonists are tied in to the larger narrative is just good writing.
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User Info: _Sanaki_

_Sanaki_
1 month ago#56
I mean, if you don’t understand how interpretations of writing are inherently subjective and personal, which means there will always be conflict on the matter, not sure what to say. And the point of FFX is somewhat important as it relates to the broader points of who they would use here.

For instance, your interpretation of FFT is very different from my own. That doesn’t make one better than the other unless you’re poorly supporting your argument (if you tried to argue Byblos as the main villain for instance), but it does mean there will not be an agreement on what it means with regard to OO.
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User Info: victorsoh

victorsoh
1 month ago#57
_Sanaki_ posted...
[...] Byblos as the main villain [...]
👍🤣
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User Info: _Sanaki_

_Sanaki_
1 month ago#58
victorsoh posted...
👍🤣

I mean, it’s just meant to represent an extreme/silly opinion. I don’t think you can reasonably argue Byblos, minor PC of sorts who is on the bottom most layer of an optional dungeon, as the main villain of FFT. To me if you can’t reasonably support it then there isn’t much merit to that kind of stance.

That doesn’t mean there is just one villain for FFT, or most FFs. There are a number of arguments one can make that are fairly reasonable for a main foil/rival/antagonist/villain of FFT, picking who that is ultimately is a more personal call. And whoever SE picks doesn’t mean that’s the only valid opinion either. They have a view, and ultimately it’s probably based less on the story in a vacuum and more on other factors like how popular a character is or the like, but at the end of the day their view is simply that, one view.
I kept silent, blaming these antics on your ignorance, but I can no longer tolerate your manners!

User Info: Zatheir

Zatheir
1 month ago#59
Considering its pre-time skip Ramza, I would argue Wiegraf or everyones love to hate douchebag Argath. I would personally prefer Zalbaag or Dycedarg just to laugh at Golbez bonding with them over having extremely boring siblings.
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