• Post New Message
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
  3. Job combinations: Stickied post vs Fence Seagull's doc

User Info: Charismanaut

Charismanaut
3 months ago#1
I read the stickied post by @WeWerePirates and found it quite useful. That said, I've also come across a popular Google doc by Fence Seagull that is quite compelling.

I'd love to hear what others think. Especially on the job combo recommendations.

Link to Fence Seagull's doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zQRW7f-77b8pgIBDVQMbH6KzBUX0Q-F05WPHUhIi170/edit#heading=h.a19tz31ivo3g

Thanks

User Info: Trance_Gene

Trance_Gene
3 months ago#2
The author of the Google doc lays out the concepts behind the classes but doesn't address the synergy between different classes. Some combos work well enough when just optimizing one of their components (Shikari/Red gives Shikari everything it's lacking]. It fails to address the gaps in the other class, though (Red Battlemage wants a way to boost spells which really only leaves them with 2 options).
I've been by this damn tree since 1997. Will someone please pick me up?

User Info: WeWerePirates

WeWerePirates
3 months ago#3
That googledoc is awful. The it seems to make sense but it doesn't really hold up. The entire premise they are operating is flawed.

4x Speed is the single largest DPS boost in the game. It literally multiplies your DPS by 4. For this reason, maximizing DPS isn’t as important as survivability.

The problem is that everything else only makes sense in context of this. So if you aren't constantly playing at 4x speed this falls over right away. If you are the logic is still flawed. Aside from it not literally being true, it doesn't change the conditions much.

I guess the reasoning is that 25% more DPS would turn a 5 Minute fight into 4 minute fight, which at 4x speed is 1 min vs 1 min 15 seconds. And that's a relatively long fight in TZA, with a few notable exceptions. So you should just care about survivability. The problem is that's all lazy abstraction. The first place it stumbles is that pretty much no job combo is remarkable in tanking, any two jobs will provide passable HP, almost anything that's a real threat ignores evade. The main variable in survivability is healing which scales with 4x speed anyway. About the only drop in survivability is that you can't spot things going wrong as fast, so in practice, and being generous all this advocates is being overly cautious and under prioritising damage. My experience is in practice good baseline DPS makes tougher encounters run smoother.

And there's really no reason to stick to a Tank / Damage / Support structure, it just doesn't apply to this game at all. The closest thing to a tanking ability is decoy and even that is counter productive more often than not. What matters much more than how well combos conform to those archetypes is how much synergy they have in terms of providing boosts to each job's performance or overall action economy of the composite role.

User Info: UnseenChaos

UnseenChaos
3 months ago#4
I hate the fact that the above Google Doc is considered popular.
Illusions of the past. You think to have cast them off, only to find them years later, unwearying, unrelenting. -- Foris Zecht
https://twitch.tv/Unseen_Chaos
(edited 3 months ago)

User Info: Tanthalas

Tanthalas
3 months ago#5
4x Speed is the single largest DPS boost in the game. It literally multiplies your DPS by 4. For this reason, maximizing DPS isn’t as important as survivability.

This is a big red flag. After reading that it's hard to think the author has a good grasp of the mechanics of the game.
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".

User Info: WeWerePirates

WeWerePirates
3 months ago#6
Yeah, the irony then is that they go on to over value the need for Infuse to hit low health, and treat berserk like a hard requirement for some jobs... while saying Archer and Machinist based combos are among the best jobs for damage dealers.

The funny thing is there's a few things which seem quite insiteful, like valuing Faith on Black Mage and realising Scourge has a higher sustained DPS than Scathe in some situations. But then taking it too far, like concluding White/Black is actually the best Black Mage combo or claiming Scourge has a better sustained DPS than boosted Ardor. I guess if you say enough random s*** you don't actually know some of it will happen to be right.

User Info: Charismanaut

Charismanaut
2 months ago#7
Thanks everyone for your sharing your thoughts, especially @WeWerePirates . Said doc has been removed from my bookmarks haha.

User Info: VangelisReactor

VangelisReactor
2 months ago#8
My personal conclusion so far is not to bother with jobs optimizations at all, if only for one's personal comfort and sense of fun. In most - if not all - cases, WeWerePirates' advice is extremely authoritative and logical, so anyone looking for help should definitely consider his expertise. At the same time, many people have their own personal criteria of allocating jobs to characters in this game, such as lore compatibility, 'coolness' of character animations, references to other works of fiction, etc. The actual functionality is not a key factor in a game so easy as this version of FFXII. If people have a specific vision in mind, then reading through guidance topics on this board may eventually become an exercise in frustration...

Anyhow, just wanted to say how I feel about all of this.
Control reality to make your life more entertaining:)
PSN ID: nisan_mudi

User Info: Charismanaut

Charismanaut
2 months ago#9
Yeah I'm about 50 hours in right now (and way more if I count up the hours reading/watching) and I'd agree with you. I have a bad habit of trying to min/max so all the info was helpful. I ultimately went with the recommendations from @WeWerePirates for early and mid game and tried out Shikari/Red on Basch since I was curious about that combo.

Recently just swapped him to Uhlan/Machinist as I'm going with the second party comp recommendation and flipped Ashe and Penelo's roles and will likely move Fran to Monk/breaker soon.

I think allowing job switching is awesome and I'll probably play around with it more.

User Info: WeWerePirates

WeWerePirates
2 months ago#10
VangelisReactor posted...
My personal conclusion so far is not to bother with jobs optimizations at all, if only for one's personal comfort and sense of fun.

Yeah, kind of. I haven't run a remotely optimised party since my initial run on Switch. But sometimes optimisation isn't a means to achieve something but the goal itself. Or even just something people are curious about. "You should play the game how you want" is good advice. But it's also pretty unhelpful without "but here is how you optimise".
(edited 2 months ago)
  1. Boards
  2. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
  3. Job combinations: Stickied post vs Fence Seagull's doc
  • Post New Message

GameFAQs Q&A