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  2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
  3. Y'know, after a bit of thought, I think I've decided what the biggest issue is

User Info: Sir_Awesome

Sir_Awesome
1 week ago#1
The game's whole appeal is rooted in exploration, but its mechanics actively discourage it.

When I say exploration, I mean "Oh boy, how do I get up there?" in a way that doesn't involve just clinging to the nearest wall like spiderman and slamming back stamina potions, skipping the whole area, which kinda defeats the point. Thing is the developers left in means to reach a lot of places in a way that involves...y'know...exploring the area in order to find it. Personally, I found this way more engaging, and the "right" routes tend to be way more lively and memorable. If you haven't played in way that limits climbing, I'd recommend trying it.

Problem is, the player has no incentive to actually do so, other than "I just kinda felt like it...I guess..." which only carries so far. Actively following the paths the developers made to a shrine or tower or something will lead you through a longer route with landmarks and enemy encounters, and for your effort, all you get out of it is a bunch of broken weapons and some dime-a-dozen collectibles. On the other hand, if you just climbed past everything, chances are it was faster, and you still get the same reward at the end.

Essentially, what the devs have done is create a system that discourages taking the long, eventful way, and encourages just skipping over everything.

The sequel really needs to hand out more permanent rewards for those who took the effort to actively scour the area other than literal turds. Hm, and also make more of an effort to draw attention to the "right" paths. The simplest way would be to have NPCs point them out, or you could have abandoned camps where you can find old maps.

User Info: OhioLawyerF5

OhioLawyerF5
1 week ago#2
I don't find taking the main paths to be "actively scouring the area". Quite the contrary. Getting off the beaten path on your way to your objective will reveal much more of the world.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

User Info: The_Bones

The_Bones
1 week ago#3
The developers left it up to the player how to tackle things. If you want to make a bunch of stamina potions you can but I think many will play differently. As for exploring being rewarding that is a bit of an issue that they will hopefully fix in the sequel.

User Info: DiogenesKC

DiogenesKC
1 week ago#4
"explore! by taking the paths we tell you to"
Welcome to the world of idiots.

User Info: Turtlemayor333

Turtlemayor333
1 week ago#5
Lets say the sequel has no durability and they hide an uber weapon, I guarentee within a week when everything has been discovered that people will complain that "there's no point in going anywhere else at the start but to get the uber weapon."

Durability was such a smart mechanic, it amazes me how many people don't get it.
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User Info: Sir_Awesome

Sir_Awesome
1 week ago#6
Turtlemayor333 posted...
Lets say the sequel has no durability and they hide an uber weapon, I guarentee within a week when everything has been discovered that people will complain that "there's no point in going anywhere else at the start but to get the uber weapon."

Durability was such a smart mechanic, it amazes me how many people don't get it.
If that uber weapon was behind a really difficult challenge only really skilled players will complete with starter gear, what's the problem?

BotW's durability is and forever will be crap. "Which of these 10 identical weapons shall I break first? Oh look, there's 5 more." is not smart.

DiogenesKC posted...
"explore! by taking the paths we tell you to"
Who said anything about them forcing you to? While it's fine for the developers to allow that kind of openness, I still feel that they should nudge the player towards the more engaging routes. The problem is they give the player no incentive to not just skip everything.

OhioLawyerF5 posted...
I don't find taking the main paths to be "actively scouring the area". Quite the contrary. Getting off the beaten path on your way to your objective will reveal much more of the world.
Thing is you have to get off the beaten path to find the "right" route the developer created in the first place. That's kinda the point, the "Aha! There it is!" moment. The thing you have to scour the area to find. The isn't exactly a giant glowing arrow pointing to at it, you have to find it yourself, and finding it is the satisfying part.

Here's a bit of a challenge: find a way to reach the Gerudo summit without making any climbs greater than a single stamina wheel (without climbing gear). Figuring that out without just cheesing it is really satisfying.

Here's another: find a way to reach the summit of Mount Granajh (the one with the shadow puzzle in the gerudo highlands) with minimal climbing.

Thinking of it, more than just the world exploration has this problem, the "brute force is encouraged over thinking".
In combat, you have all these wiz-bang tools to play around with...but enemy HP inflates so rapidly everything that isn't "hit it with a pointy stick 'til it dies" is nonviable
Cooking, you have can learn these complex 5 ingredient recipes, but they're all inferior to just throwing 5 of the same thing in a pot.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: TheAntiZealot

TheAntiZealot
1 week ago#7
Sir_Awesome posted...
BotW's durability is and forever will be crap. "Which of these 10 identical weapons shall I break first? Oh look, there's 5 more." is not smart.
It's not a durability system. It's a Critical Hit system with a strategic combat disarmament of self & enemies feature.
TAZ
"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me." -Xtreme65

User Info: Ramza1

Ramza1
1 week ago#8
TheAntiZealot posted...
It's not a durability system. It's a Critical Hit system with a strategic combat disarmament of self & enemies feature.
I wouldn't go that far. But I think I get the gist.

If you just think of it as "my weapons break", then you might be overlooking what's really important. If you imagine it as a critical hit system or an ammo system it can be much easier to see the actual effects that the system has on gameplay.

As for the fact that you can simply climb and glide past everything, I think it's actually a good thing that it's an option. The "incentive" for following the "intended" path is that many shrines, koroks, and treasures are found that way.

And contrary to popular belief, enemy and weapon scaling guarantees that engaging in combat actually results in you getting more and better weapons.

Both following and bypassing the path are rewarded, which makes sense considering you're supposed to do both.
I'm not sure how, I'm not sure why, but I'm almost certain that you owe me money!

User Info: Great_Khan

Great_Khan
1 week ago#9
I think you're getting at my issues with it. I find "How do I get there?" to be a much more interesting concept that "I'm gonna go over there". I like that thought process of figuring out on how to get to a place and BotW is very much a "just hold up" sort of game. It's why the Zora pathway is so good and why they turn off climbing whenever they want anything structured or brainteasing, you can't make traversal puzzles when there aren't any barriers.

What's worse it's slow as s*** as a "hold up" game. Spiderman is a "hold up" game but you move at a billion miles an hour and can do wicked flips and launches and wall runs and stuff to make the lack of real decision making easily forgotten because movement itself is so much more exciting, varied, and fun. Subnautica gives a range of vehicles and water allows for vertical barriers to be traversed as easily as horizontal ones. Shadow of Mordor has 35x the climb speed etc.

User Info: Sir_Awesome

Sir_Awesome
1 week ago#10
Great_Khan posted...
I think you're getting at my issues with it. I find "How do I get there?" to be a much more interesting concept that "I'm gonna go over there". I like that thought process of figuring out on how to get to a place and BotW is very much a "just hold up" sort of game. It's why the Zora pathway is so good and why they turn off climbing whenever they want anything structured or brainteasing, you can't make traversal puzzles when there aren't any barriers.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Just the other day I managed to scale two very high places without spiderman climbing, solely by being observant of my surroundings and paying attention to the map. It was way more satisfying than just approaching the nearest wall holding up. Unfortunately the game doesn't encourage this kind of play at all, if you get the shiny at the end regardless if you skipped the whole thing or not, what purpose does the scenic route serve?

Another thing to note is because of BotW's "super mega ultra open" nature, not only is it super easy to break, it's super easy to unintentionally break, to the point of merely approaching from the wrong direction will break it. There's numerous instances where I just glided somewhere from a high place, only to realize that I accidentally bypassed an entire series of enemy encounters and hazards. It's not a satisfying feeling at all, it only feels like I accidentally cheated myself out of something interesting.

I wonder how many people know that the "right" way to approach both the Gerudo and Wasteland towers involved simple physics puzzles? I was certainly surprised to see something like that outside of a shrine. Also the "right" route to approach the Spring of Courage involved getting ambushed by a bunch of lizalfos with shock arrows. That was um...tense, considering that there's water everywhere.
(edited 1 week ago)
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