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  3. Breakdown of stat checks

User Info: Yst

Yst
11 years ago#1
So I'd been looking into just how high TNO's INT has to be until it's no longer relevant. And in the process of going through PS:T's dialogue files, I ended up taking a look at some other stats as well. For curiosity's sake, below is the number of times a check to see whether a given stat exceeds a given number occurs in PS:T's dialogue files, for each stat. Keep in mind, these are duplicated in more than one way, as this includes all conversation trees (including mutually exclusive ones), and all instances of more than one stat (e.g., either WIS or INT) triggering the same event. It does not include checks to see if a stat is lower than a given number.


Wis: 263
Int: 597
Cha: 452
Str: 81
Dex: 90
Con: 9

User Info: iforgotnmyname

iforgotnmyname
11 years ago#2
Neat.

For powergaming purposes (and plain curiosity), would you know the highest a stat ever needs to be for a stat-check?
Yes i am insane. Abnormally insane though. For that reason i can keep my sanity.

User Info: Yst

Yst
11 years ago#3
Perfunctory Big Spoilers Warning

Highest Checks in the Game Are:

CON: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 12)
STR: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 17, but only occurs if you are a fighter at the time; next highest for any class is 16)
INT: 21 (no checks above 19 until after Carceri)
WIS: 24 (Transcendent One - next highest is 22)
CHA: 25 (Nordom - Vhailor and TTO are only other checks above 18)
DEX: 19 (Nabat in Curst)

I've listed the next highest checks for some of these because the highest checks are often late game anomalies. So e.g., yes, there's a CON check for 21, but only one of them, and it has an INT based alternative.

Nonetheless, one thing I'm inclined to observe is that the character who passes the most stat checks is inevitably not the character who pumps his INT to 25 before getting to Pharod. As I point out, the highest INT check in the game is 21, and TNO won't encounter that one until the Outlands. All the ones up to there are no higher than 19. So using those points to have a reasonable DEX and STR and CON (in that order) makes quite a bit more sense, and will allow TNO to pass slightly more dialogue checks, than raising INT past 19 in the first half of the game, or raising it past 21 at any point in the game. Plus, regenerating hit points at a reasonable rate (via CON) is quite handy.

Moral of the story: going with a fairly high starting WIS and INT and CHA is fine, but racing to 25 thereafter is largely pointless, as checks tend to be lower in the early game, and seldom ever reach godly proportions. WIS and INT and CHA are certainly higher priority stats, from a dialogue point of view, but raising DEX and STR will also net you some checks, particularly when you're raising them into the 13-17 range.

User Info: DarkPalestine

DarkPalestine
11 years ago#4
Yeah, but wisdom gives you the XP bonus.
Only the intelligent can recognize their own ignorance.

User Info: DarkPalestine

DarkPalestine
11 years ago#5
Also, did you take note of how many of those are an either/or situation? Like, you have a wis or dex choice in a certain situation.
Only the intelligent can recognize their own ignorance.

User Info: Yst

Yst
11 years ago#6
No, as I say in the original post: this includes all conversation trees (including mutually exclusive ones), and all instances of more than one stat (e.g., either WIS or INT) triggering the same event.

Evaluating the mutual exclusivity of all checks would be vastly more complicated. Nigh impossible, I should think. But banging one's head against a problem is always interesting.

Though if I used a BASH script to get WeiDU to extract every single DLG file to D format in turn, then wrote a Python script to...

Sigh. On the other hand, maybe I'll just go back to playing the bloody game ;)

User Info: reverse_adonis

reverse_adonis
11 years ago#7
Very interesting Yst, id like to see more if you have the time. :D
"Welcome, Stranger" : "What are ya buyin?" : "Come back anytime..." -- The Merchant, RE4

User Info: Darkman124

Darkman124
11 years ago#8
My favorite DEX/STR check:

At the gate to the Dead Nations, the guard in the Underground Village won't let you back without the Bronze Sphere.

But with 16 DEX, you can grab his hand, and with 13-16 STR (I don't know the exact number), you can twist it back against the gate and threaten to crush it, forcing him to let you in. Every time you talk to him after that, he simply "Looks away with a mix of fear and loathing" and lets you in, and you cheerily thank him.
Your opinion is wrong.

User Info: Yst

Yst
11 years ago#9
More stats for my own, and conceivably your, amusement. What can I say? I was in a coding mood, and this hit the spot.

This is really as close as it's possible to get to identifying all mutually exclusive checks short of a full-fledged IE DLG parser/mapper with analytic features. These figures represent the number of dialogue states which offer a given stat check or combination of alternative stat checks. That is to say, if a state has both an INT and a WIS based resolution, it is included here in the 'INT or WIS' tally. Hence:

Number of dialogue states which offer resolutions based on given stats:

INT only: 266
WIS only: 97
CHA only: 302
INT or WIS: 75
INT or CHA: 28
CHA or WIS: 4
INT or CHA or WIS: 12

Keep in mind that these values are fundamentally different in their meaning from the first ones I listed earlier. The first values I listed here simply totaled every single check anywhere (for stat y > value x ), including mutually exclusive instances within a given state. This list instead provides the number of dialogue states which offer a resolution via a given stat check or combination of them. Also keep in mind that not all checks are created equal. A given WIS check might be drastically superior in effect to an alternative CHA check, either materially or based on your style of play.

This latter exercise was quite a bit more complicated, but I think it is probably more interesting.
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