• Post New Message
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
This topic contains spoilers - you can click, tap, or highlight to reveal them
  1. Boards
  2. Fate / Grand Order
  3. Is it just me or is Agartha written really, really badly?

User Info: xhominid

xhominid
1 week ago#11
DreikoSaMa posted...
There definitely is something that can be said about FGO portraying Blackbeard as a loveable creep who is still fun and can be actually likeable at moments (ones where he's not discussing licking armpits of children, in particular) but choosing to go all serious with Columbus.

Though of course it's still their freedom of expression so they can go that way if it fits their vision of the game and I'll be fully supportive of that (assuming this isn't just a figment of the imagination of the localization team and that it doesn't differ from the JP original), but it indeed can be said that they could easily make Columbus into one more loveable rascal with a dark past and it'd fit in just as well if not more with the rest of the people they have.

I mean, we just did a story where Carmilla makes jokes about her "torture orb" that is her crystallized desire to torture people. Columbus could have a "slavery orb" joke too lol. Slavery's not worse than torturing people with iron maidens.


I think the whole point of Columbus being portrayed as horrifically evil compared to the others... is simply to subvert the usual expectations of every other Servant in the game, nothing anything more complicated than that.

The whole point @Charocks is simply thus:
Columbus DOES call out the fact that we condemn him as evil for holding onto his values(though trying to go into the slave trade again is pretty f***ed) but yes, A GOOD CHUNK OF OUR SERVANTS ARE STILL EQUALLY WARPED AS HIM IN TERMS OF THEIR IDEALS(Mash literally has no answer when he spits it back in her face, the game actually agrees with Columbus, we literally have no right to talk at him for it).

Columbus is evil not due to his deeds, but more of the fact that he will 100% follow through with his ideals no matter what and will never change... but that's also his primary charm as unlike most of the other "villainous" Servants(Moriarty, Gorgon, Carmilla or even "Good" Servants who has done f***ed up deeds in the past and got "revisions" like Ozymandias and the other Phaorohs, Gilgamesh, Iskander, etc.), he IS treated as badly as he should and is given an exaggerated villainous upgrade compared to the other heroes who get their worst atrocities white washed, that's the point.
http://i.imgur.com/Ktn6GvQ.gif http://i.imgur.com/JHYvbO5.gif http://i.imgur.com/HiIAHMi.gif http://i.imgur.com/Y8ib6bK.gif http://i.imgur.com/yoCDP7y.gif

User Info: MaidKnight404

MaidKnight404
1 week ago#12
@Charocks I can't speak for Columbus at least, but napolean is uh...spoilery.

JP content ahoy, read at your own risk

the napolean we get as a servant is not the real man who actually lived, nor is he a "what if" possibility of the man or anything like that. Napolean is the physical manifestation of the mythology and cult of personality that was developed around him, and openly admits this. When asked about the real napolean, who would be rider class, archer napolean implies him to be a far less heroic figure.

also hes INCREDIBLY manly, whoo boi.
My Fate/Grand Order (JP) Friend Bind is 484,416,786 (Vasche)

User Info: abyss

abyss
1 week ago#13
Eh, it seems the issue here is more that everyone else is basically good (or 'comically evil') regardless of their history or alignment so Columbus stands out, rather than Columbus himself being written that way.

Also not sure how you'd come to the conclusion of it being 'feminist', outside of 'because women'. Unless you think the societies in Agartha were portrayed positively?

User Info: DreikoSaMa

DreikoSaMa
1 week ago#14
xhominid posted...
DreikoSaMa posted...
There definitely is something that can be said about FGO portraying Blackbeard as a loveable creep who is still fun and can be actually likeable at moments (ones where he's not discussing licking armpits of children, in particular) but choosing to go all serious with Columbus.

Though of course it's still their freedom of expression so they can go that way if it fits their vision of the game and I'll be fully supportive of that (assuming this isn't just a figment of the imagination of the localization team and that it doesn't differ from the JP original), but it indeed can be said that they could easily make Columbus into one more loveable rascal with a dark past and it'd fit in just as well if not more with the rest of the people they have.

I mean, we just did a story where Carmilla makes jokes about her "torture orb" that is her crystallized desire to torture people. Columbus could have a "slavery orb" joke too lol. Slavery's not worse than torturing people with iron maidens.


I think the whole point of Columbus being portrayed as horrifically evil compared to the others... is simply to subvert the usual expectations of every other Servant in the game, nothing anything more complicated than that.

The whole point @Charocks is simply thus:
Columbus DOES call out the fact that we condemn him as evil for holding onto his values(though trying to go into the slave trade again is pretty f***ed) but yes, A GOOD CHUNK OF OUR SERVANTS ARE STILL EQUALLY WARPED AS HIM IN TERMS OF THEIR IDEALS(Mash literally has no answer when he spits it back in her face, the game actually agrees with Columbus, we literally have no right to talk at him for it).

Columbus is evil not due to his deeds, but more of the fact that he will 100% follow through with his ideals no matter what and will never change... but that's also his primary charm as unlike most of the other "villainous" Servants(Moriarty, Gorgon, Carmilla or even "Good" Servants who has done f***ed up deeds in the past and got "revisions" like Ozymandias and the other Phaorohs, Gilgamesh, Iskander, etc.), he IS treated as badly as he should and is given an exaggerated villainous upgrade compared to the other heroes who get their worst atrocities white washed, that's the point.


Yeah so, there's definitely glimpses of what you're describing, but either the translation team is not equipped with talent enough to thread this needle or something because too much it veers from portraying him as an evil dude to in a sense preaching about obviously evil deeds that need no hashing out.

The scenes with him are overall fine and his characterization has that element going for it which makes it interesting but it feels like the world around it clashes with it out of the eagerness it has to condemn him. You can have a guy being irredeemable without everyone having to actively point out how irredeemable he is every chance they get.

So yeah, it's less that other people don't condemn every other person who has a dark past and only condemn him but more that they jump to condemn him too much and it's not played as a joke or a gag or something unique to him but rather it's played straight like the normal reaction, which feels jarring.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/609/simplebeauty.jpg
<3
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: VeraMagna

VeraMagna
1 week ago#15
Excuse you. When was Vlad ever evil? He's a damn crusader in the eye of his supporters.

User Info: Charocks

Charocks
1 week ago#16
@xhominid @DreikoSaMa
You both hit it on the head.

@abyss
Feminist wasn't the right word. I'm just getting over bronchitis and just got off work when I posted so I wasn't exactly at my peak.

@MaidKnight404
I figured as much considering he isn't comically short. Only reason I know he's in the game is because of a meme I saw on reddit.
06/11/19 - The day Smash truly became Ultimate
GT - AN EWOKS WRATH

User Info: u3br

u3br
1 week ago#17
Columbus was a piece of s*** in real life and him being portrayed as a piece of s*** has to be the last thing I'd think to complain about in Agartha lol

User Info: Pikachuster15

Pikachuster15
1 week ago#18
It is annoying how much... overkill they went with Columbus. On the one hand its interesting to have a servant who doesn't just adapt and roll with modern values, but having Columbus this bad feels a bit odd. Not that I mean he was a saint of course but considering some of the historical tyrants or legendary monsters who appear as servants, Columbus seems minor compared to that. And then there's his crazy artwork too.

I'm not a historian or anything but it stands out when most of the other famous servants are somewhat whitewashed or their negative aspects are toned down (such as the Septem chapter) but here it feels like they went too far in the other direction. And its not really fun having such a horrible person around either. The rest of the servants are either made nicer or wackier, but with Columbus, nope.

Then they even make it extra troublesome to even get a copy of him. Not that I want him much (personality or gameplay wise he's not that great) but I'd like to get every 3* I can, but he's story-locked and has very, very few banners.

And that's not even going into Agartha's other problems. Its probably why its the least favorite EoR chapter.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: xhominid

xhominid
1 week ago#19
VeraMagna posted...
Excuse you. When was Vlad ever evil? He's a damn crusader in the eye of his supporters.


To the eyes of his supporters, yes. To everyone else, he's completely and utterly insane.

u3br posted...
Columbus was a piece of s*** in real life and him being portrayed as a piece of s*** has to be the last thing I'd think to complain about in Agartha lol


He was definitely no saint but he was definitely as not as evil as the game portrayed(even with the most recent findings, a reminder that some of those was definitely his rivals and would have it good to shame him. But he did do some awful things).

http://i.imgur.com/Ktn6GvQ.gif http://i.imgur.com/JHYvbO5.gif http://i.imgur.com/HiIAHMi.gif http://i.imgur.com/Y8ib6bK.gif http://i.imgur.com/yoCDP7y.gif

User Info: xhominid

xhominid
1 week ago#20
DreikoSaMa posted...
Yeah so, there's definitely glimpses of what you're describing, but either the translation team is not equipped with talent enough to thread this needle or something because too much it veers from portraying him as an evil dude to in a sense preaching about obviously evil deeds that need no hashing out.


Nope, Columbus is this cartoonishly evil even in JP, nothing about him was changed at all(hell, some argue Agartha was made slightly better in localization since JP kinda sorta fetishized some aspects to make it more degenerate).
There's a reason it took for Summer 4 for Columbus to ever show up in any reasonable capacity in an event.

DreikoSaMa posted...
The scenes with him are overall fine and his characterization has that element going for it which makes it interesting but it feels like the world around it clashes with it out of the eagerness it has to condemn him. You can have a guy being irredeemable without everyone having to actively point out how irredeemable he is every chance they get.


I 100% agree with that but that seems how FGO wants to do it. They want to make him the anti-thesis of Servants as a whole by pointing out how messed up the system is and how many Servants really have some pretty damning issues that is carried by their values that is brushed aside along with their more shady history. Unlike the others, Columbus's is boosted to even worse heights on purpose compared to the others being toned down to mock it.

DreikoSaMa posted...
So yeah, it's less that other people don't condemn every other person who has a dark past and only condemn him but more that they jump to condemn him too much and it's not played as a joke or a gag or something unique to him but rather it's played straight like the normal reaction, which feels jarring.


That's why it took them forever to actually bring him back onscreen for once.
http://i.imgur.com/Ktn6GvQ.gif http://i.imgur.com/JHYvbO5.gif http://i.imgur.com/HiIAHMi.gif http://i.imgur.com/Y8ib6bK.gif http://i.imgur.com/yoCDP7y.gif
  1. Boards
  2. Fate / Grand Order
  3. Is it just me or is Agartha written really, really badly?
  • Post New Message