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User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#1
So I’ve been feeling a bit less lazy lately along with having a bit more free time and a bit more boredom since busy season at work is over. With the last slew of tier lists, the idea of something like this potentially being useful came up and I thought it would be fun to try my hand at it.

This guide is meant to serve 2 purposes.

The first part is to help people think more critically about teambuilding to tackle hard content with whatever resources they have.

The second is a general guideline of how to pilot the 3 card-types.This is more for newer players but I’ll also be mentioning a couple of things I see when watching a lot of runs that I think can be improved on or that I think often go unmentioned in discussions.

With that in mind, a couple of key things before we start:

a) I am not ordering you to play in any manner you do not want to. If you like adversity, and retrying your hand at a quest multiple times to get clears in a specific way you want, power to you, especially if you’re on JP where this is much harder to pull off even with full on SSR lineups. This is for the people who are struggling or just want to get a better idea on the thought process of how to build and pilot good and consistent teams.

b) This is not a comp tier list or anything of the sort.

c) This is meant to be a general guide and is not meant to cover every single nuanced scenario regarding a particular servant, every single comp, or every variation of a comp.


Depending on the feedback (Yes, I encourage you to flame me, preferably with constructive cricism), I might update part 2 every 6 months or so in tandem with the board’s tier lists. If it turns out to be complete crap and unhelpful, then I’ll obviously stop.

Anyways, let’s get to it.

Part 1 Team Building:

The most important thing about team building, imo, is a clear understanding of roles. In this board we like to throw around terms such as DPS, support, or semi-support to describe particular servants but I don’t think pigeonholing into those 3 categories is particularly telling on what a servant’s best use is given what you have.
Instead, I like to think of roles as slots on a team, of which there are 6 (since you can field 6 servants). On each quest, every one of your servants is competing for a slot against all of your other servants to be fielded. A servant can slot differently depending on what you have and the quest at hand. The order mentioned below is typical but not set in stone.

Slot 1: Pointman

The point man is your primary damage dealer. Their job is to leverage what the supports provide to either outright annihilate the enemy or at least cause as much damage as possible before the front line crumbles to the point where the backline, particularly your Slot 6, can clean up. They can have utility but it should be a bonus on top of their ability to do damage consistently.

Commonly Run Servants in this role:
SSR: Jalter, Archuria, Gilgamesh, Hokusai (JP), Dantes (JP), QSH (JP), Kama (JP)

SR: BB, Demiya, Lancer Raikou, Kintoki Rider, Parvati (JP), Yagyu Munenori (JP)

R-C: Euryale, Robin Hood, Hozuin Inshun (JP), William Tell (JP)

Commonly Good CEs for this role:

Black Grail or event damage CE is king, otherwise, Golden Sumo, Holy Knight Supper, Aerial Drive, Art of Death are common alternatives.
(edited 7 months ago)

User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#2
Slot 2: Big 4 SSR Support (Friend’s List if you need to) – Primary Front Line Support

This slot requires the second least amount of thinking. Sorry, but the big 4 SSR supports give too much value to ignore when you’re actually playing to clear. Use them appropriately if you have them. If not, grab at least 1 from your friend’s list for whatever card-type of the comp you’re trying to run.

The exception is in Arts because they have a variety of choices that can actually compete with what Tamamo offers often enough, though she still is usually the best. Lanling (JP), Jeanne, Casgil, Merlin, and Waver are the common alternatives.

You’d be hard pressed to find quests where you don’t want at least 1 Merlin or Skadi (JP) when running Buster and Quick though. They might exist, but nothing comes to my mind as of late.

Commonly Run Servants in this role: Self Explanatory

Commonly Good CEs for this role:

Merlin: 2030, Prisma Cosmos, His Rightful Place, Demonic Bhodissatva (For Shorter Fights), CEs that speed up NP gain.

Tamamo: 2030, Prisma Cosmos, His Rightful Place, her Bond CE, CEs that speed up NP gain.

Waver: 2030, His Rightful Place, Golden Carp, Holy Maiden’s Teaching (JP)

Skadi: Golden Carp, Holy Maiden’s Teaching (JP), her Bond CE

Slot 3: Plugsuit Support

Supports, I like to shove in two categories, fast or slow. Someone like Waver and Skadi are fast. They give frontloaded value through skills and then fizzle out until those are back up again. Someone like Mash, Merlin or Tamamo are slow. A lot of their value is tied to their NPs which need time to build, but eventually have better uptime than skills which have cooldowns.

The third slot is typically given to supports who provide frontloaded value instead of over time. They provide either more speed for a fast comp, or more stability for a slow comp until it gets its engine running. After unloading their skills, the Slot 3 is often swapped out with slot 5, who is normally the secondary frontline support, more focused on long term value.

Crit weight deserves a mention here because I too many suggestions of X servant to be used as a support when they clearly mess up your crit weight balance by stealing stars from the pointman. Please try your best to avoid this. If you are going to use one of those servants, preferably put them on this slot so they get swapped out.

As you might know, crits are overpowered. They give double damage, double NP gain, and have the highest damage buff values that go up to 100% because DW thinks its hard for you to crit, which it’s not if you build properly. They’re a big part of the reason why Riders and Archers have the best damage dealers on average. You want to be getting crits off as much as possible.

Commonly Run Servants in this role:

SSR: Second Waver, Nero Bride, Second Skadi (JP)

SR: Rishtar, Lancer Raikou, Wu Zetian, Chiron (JP)

R-C: Paul Bunyan, Mozart, Hans (JP), Shakespeare, Asclepius (JP)

Commonly Good CEs for this role:

Golden Carp, Ox Demon King, Holy Maiden’s Teaching (JP)

Slot 4: Mash

We love Mash. She’s free in cost and she’s good. Both her original and Ortenaus (JP) forms have pros and cons over the other. Either way, when your frontline dies, you want someone to have skills fresh and ready to make an immediate impact. She’s here to pick up the pieces. If you don’t have your own appropriate SSR caster, Mash can also go into Slot 5 as a permanent frontliner. You would need to fill this slot with something else.

Commonly Run Servants in this role: Self Explanatory

Commonly Good CEs for this role: You’re usually going to be constrained by cost here, since you’d want to put CEs on every other slot first. If you have space, 2030s, Prisma Cosmos, First Premonition, or even Dragon’s Meridian would be useful.
(edited 7 months ago)

User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#3
Slot 5: Flex Slot – Secondary Frontline Support (Or Semi-Support if you really want to run them)

As was mentioned in discussing slot 3, this is what you swap in with plug suit. If you have your own copy, this is normally the second SSR caster support if you just want the highest raw power. However, while raw power is often very good, it’s not always the solution, particularly if your roster is not as developed. Sometimes you need a bit of finesse and that’s the other use of slot 5.

Slot 5 is used to counter a specific gimmick or enable a strategy. If the enemy has NP turnover too fast for double Merlin to cover, Jeanne is slotted here. If the enemy has NP that pierces invul, Nightingale is slotted here. Need buff block? Try Mephistopheles. Need a little bit of boost to internals for NP looping? Paracelsus (JP) or Asclepius (JP). And of course, Summer BB (JP) when you want cards locked.

If you don’t have an appropriate flex pick nor the SSR support caster, albeit rarely, you occasionally want to take the flex pick over the SSR support caster.

Commonly Run Servants in this role:

SSR: Jeanne, Sherlock, Nightingale, Summer BB (JP)

SR: Helena, Casgil, Lanling (JP), Wu Zetian (Bond CE)

R-C: Hans, Paracelsus (JP), Asclepius (JP).

Commonly Good CEs for this role: Varies, it's a flex slot.

Slot 6: Anchor – Used to Bail You When s*** Hits the Fan

So when things go horribly wrong, this is the servant that you rely on to carry the day. Their trademark is great survivability, and preferably high damage. This slot is why Herc is recommended in every free SR ticket thread and when rerolling. They’re not reliant on any strategy or synergy, and do their jobs best alone in a vacuum. You can also put a starting NP CE on a class advantaged servant on this slot as a last ditch nuke.

Commonly Run Servants in this role:

SSR: Cu Alter, QSH (JP), Osakabehime (JP)

SR: Herc, Nero

R-C: Cu

Commonly Good CEs for this role:

Volumen Hydrargum, Herc Bond CE, Starting NP CEs, 2030 on QSH or any passive stargen CE, preferably with HP stats.
(edited 7 months ago)

User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#4
Non Standard Slots:

We’re just going to go over these quickly as they don’t fit into any of the 6 above but are used often enough to deserve a mention.

Slot ExA: Arash
He’s used to blow up first waves. If you have a scope, he’s live. If you have Dragon’s Meridian and Waver in front, he’s live. Always be on the lookout to find uses for him for they are plenty.

Slot ExB: Taunters
These include Mash, St. George, and Leonidas. They’re very useful for those with underdeveloped rosters, especially in JP with stupidly high card damage. You see those Honako clears? All of them use at least one of these guys.

Slot ExC: Suicide Supports with Taunt CEs
A more offensive variant of taunters. They will tank less hits (usually only 1), but their other purpose is to buff or NP charge your poitman to achieve memetastic levels of onslaught

Slot ExD: Chen Gong (JP)
Mr. Gong enables memetastic s***. Guaranteed 3 turn loops for AOE quick teams, very likely 4 turn loops, guaranteed 2 NPs from Buster Memers, and a way to get an Arts damage dealer to 100% with BG. More uses will be evident in coming months. He also doubles as an Arash.

Part 2: General Team Piloting

Buster Overview:

Buster is the middle ground, a mix of speed and stall. They’re the most versatile card type that can adjust playstyles as necessary. Their standard plan involves 1-2 turns of burst with NPs and crits, stalling while Hero Creation is on CD, and then bursting again.

Buster will eventually be the hardest team to use properly. This isn’t evident yet in NA because Merlin gives you enough stall to weather anything. However, soon DW is going to concoct all types of shenanigans to try and curb Merlin including invul pierces, faster enemy NP turnover, and ultra high card damage. You’re not only going to have to be more careful with the slot 5 pick (not always double Merlin) and CE pick (Starting CE over slower Prisma Cosmos and 2030s) but also how you play with regards to popping skills (particularly invul against high card damage) and card selection.

My advice for new players is to get really comfortable with the damage ranges of your damage dealers, both for NP and card damage. It takes a bit of paying attention to get used to. You want to use just the right amount of buffs to kill over the breakbar and save the rest for later. You don’t need to mass overkill with double hero creation NP-B-B unless that’s what’s necessary to break the bar.

After you kill the breakbar, ideally you don’t want to use any more red cards but instead blue or green ones.

Finally, you don’t want to waste the Hero Creation Crit damage if you can help it. Pop it when you have buster cards, use said cards to break a bar because the cards do sick damage, and then NP the next turn, hopefully with some crits on blue cards, which along with some batteries or GOA, lets you NP again on turn 3. Otherwise, just try to fit in 2 NPs in Hero Creation’s duration. Card counting helps

Most clears from JP you will see nowadays are from Gilgamesh or QSH. Those two make things look easy because they’re overpowered in all the right ways. The former bypasses gimmicks with raw power and the other’s team literally gets hit for 1 turn every 7-10 turns.

User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#5
Arts Overview:

Arts is all about slow and steady. They’re great when they can build up momentum but have problems when a quest requires them to be proactive and kill things before it kills them or quests that punch through defense ups. They are great at single target boss fights, partly because their best damage dealers are single target in Archuria, Yagyu, Benienma, Vlad (NA) but they have issues against AOE quests with multiple enemy charge bars to control as well as fast charging gimmicks because the drains can’t keep up with all of them and they have no spammable invul to fall back on without resorting to Jeanne.

Arts has the best budget pointmen in Chloe, BB, Shiki, and Euryale. They also have 2 effective full on SR supports with Casgil and Lanling (JP). For people who are completely new, this is probably the team to play for a while because simple arts chains can carry you far.

Piloting is pretty straightforward, you spam NPs as much as possible. Just be careful to not press any more blue cards than needed. If you’re going over 100 on someone either because of BB or Tamamo NP getting them there, pick other cards. If you’re thinking about going for the sweet arts NP brave chain on your damage dealer over a chain across 3 servants/Tamamo NP, you’re most likely making a mistake. The punishment for skill misuse isn’t as heavy here as compared to Buster because Tamamo encourages it with the cooldown reduction and the fact that Tamamo is inherently tankier than Merlin, needing less protection outside of enemy NPs.

Quick Overview (JP -Sorry, I’m not going to go over quick in NA, because Quick in NA is best played like Buster in NA, painful but true Pre-Skadi.):

Quick is all about overpowering the challenge quest through speed, high damage and recursion. They avoid a lot of gimmicks through sheer brute force with successive hard hitting NP turns. Dantes, the standout poster boy, has additional anti gimmick mechanics with an invul pierce and debuff clear on top of everything. They are stupidly consistent at their gameplan (especially the AOE variant), and got even more consistent with Chen Gong (the AOE variant’s loop can now be guaranteed with no face cards and the ST variant has a very low failure rate).

They are inappropriate when the CQ in question has heavy defensive gimmicks and forces a slower line of play that they can’t outright punch through (pretty much only certain Gilfest quests and full Gauge Kama over the past year).

Now, to get the elephant out of the room, Quick is more expensive than the other card types. If you’re a prospective NA player, you need your own Skadi, and your own damage dealer at minimum, preferably at NP2. You want a stabilizer to help loop in Waver and Summer BB, preferably both because the former is better for AOE the latter for ST. The dropoff in efficacy here is much larger than if you don’t have your own Merlin or Tamamo so it deserves a mention. Quick is the least volatile out of all teams, (because they outright ignore a lot of gimmicks and skip a majority of the intended fight) if you have all the necessary pieces, but you need the pieces.

Quick is the easiest to play when you get to the quest screen. Decision making is non-existant. That’s because you already did your homework and know exactly how much it takes and what to do to get to the next turn of looping for whichever damage dealer you’re bringing. You know their internals by heart. You know when to wait until you have the right cards to start your onslaught because you did all the math beforehand. What do you mean you don’t know these things?
(edited 7 months ago)

User Info: u3br

u3br
7 months ago#6
nice

I'm sure this will become a topic quabbling over specific things you mentioned, but before that happens I want to point out that this took some effort and it was nice of you to do it

seems like it will be helpful

User Info: Oathkeeper58

Oathkeeper58
7 months ago#7
Very informative and well thought out. I'm sure it will be an excellent resource for newer players.
FGO ign: Axlan

User Info: agtady

agtady
7 months ago#8
Thanks.

I was thinking of writing guidelines for specific teams in NA and JP with specific pointmen in mind, but in the end, decided against it for something more general.

User Info: DemiseEnd

DemiseEnd
7 months ago#9
Holy NIGHT supper btw
Real Metal bounces their breast. Deal with it.
3ds fc:3823-9549-3094 - Ice > Fire

User Info: MaidKnight404

MaidKnight404
7 months ago#10
Sticky, plz
My Fate/Grand Order (JP) Friend Bind is 484,416,786 (Vasche)
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