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  3. So I watched Apocrypha and...*spoilers*

User Info: Mega_Gardevoir

Mega_Gardevoir
4 weeks ago#1
I don't hate Sieg. Is it...strange?

I agree that the other Masters + Servants were more interesting overall, but I don't find his role all too different from UBW Shirou for example: When it comes to protagonist-itis and plot armor. His personality not being very developed I kind associated with him being effectively a 0 year old baby mentally.

I feel like the hate comes from the shipping with Jeanne (which I had hoped would've been actually Laeticia) and wanting to see the cooler Red Saber duo in action more. Imo, Sieg didn't feel like a main character. Not any more than Kiritsugu. In the end Jeanne/Iri and Sisigou/Waver both had stronger roles.

Maybe it's because Siegfried was my first non-tutorial gold Servant, so it felt like Sieg had inherited his wish to save people in a second life. That was what his character and developments revolved around. It's simple enough and there wasn't much more to expect from someone with no backstory or family background of their own.

I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on this. But on another note, after watching FSN, Zero, UBW and Apocrypha are any of the remaining Fate shows worth a try?
MG

User Info: Chaosloader

Chaosloader
4 weeks ago#2
Watch the Heaven's Feel movies if you like, I heard good things about Kaleid but the whole magical girl thing is throwing me off hardcore personally.

With that said I'm right there with you, I really enjoyed Apocrypha even if it was very flawed. I like the servants displayed there a lot, most of my favorites are from that show (save for Gil I suppose). I feel Sieg gets a lot of hate for being too weak or not fleshed out enough but I don't think that's the case at all.

Dude was created to be a mana battery, manages to escape, gets tangled up in a struggle for some greater power he has no need of, gets killed, inherits the will of a great hero of old, finds a meaning to his short life, gets his wish granted.

As far as character development goes, sure, he might be a bit bland, but this is pretty good imo. I like him and can't wait to be using him when he's released as a welfare.
FGO ID: 298,961,258 https://imgur.com/nPjizvK Yeah, I like Gilgamesh.
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#3
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User Info: VirusLord

VirusLord
4 weeks ago#4
Chaosloader posted...
Dude was created to be a mana battery, manages to escape, gets tangled up in a struggle for some greater power he has no need of, gets killed, inherits the will of a great hero of old, finds a meaning to his short life, gets his wish granted.

The trouble, IMO, is that 90% of what you listed happens by episode 5, and then there's another 20 episodes after that where Sieg gets more and more screentime, but less and less development.

...I dunno, I didn't really enjoy Apocrypha. I guess there's a lot of little reasons why. There were so many characters that it never felt like there was time to actually properly develop or connect with any of them, and the whole production felt less like a cohesive plot and more like a loose collection of cool ideas all blended together. Jack the Ripper was an interesting idea but had no business being involved in the war (and we didn't even get to see how she ended up as a rogue Servant), Mordred has the charisma to carry the story but has barely any screentime and very little relevance to the main plot, Sieg is interesting on paper and has the screentime and relevance but is unbearably bland for how much attention he gets, etc. There are a lot of elements that sound cool in a vacuum, but were just a mess when put together, especially with screentime divided between so many characters.

It was also frustrating that Jeanne was really cool at times (her speech to Atalante was one of my favorite moments in the series), but she spends half of her time crushing on a piece of cardboard. ...I'm being a bit unfair to Sieg, but he and Jeanne really didn't have any chemistry. My favorite Sieg scenes were the ones with Astolfo, who played off of Sieg much better and made the homunculus seem more interesting by association.

A lot of the action also felt... underwhelming. The final battles were admittedly awesome, but by that point I felt pretty apathetic about most of the characters, which took something out of it. The early battles... didn't get me excited for the series.

But I've ranted long enough. It isn't wrong to like the series, even though I personally didn't care for it. And I'm actually looking forward to the Apocrypha collab event, as I've heard positive opinions about what they do with Sieg's character in it.
Ruler of the Unknown Universe
"Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality." - Emil, ToS:DotNW

User Info: Black_Fire

Black_Fire
4 weeks ago#5
You touched on it TC but I agree that It really doesn't help that Fiore, Caules, and Kairi are far more interesting then him. Shirou is definitely comparable but he has no real competition in terms of other characters that you would rather see on screen as a protag besides rin or sakura who get good screen time in their routes.
"Hatred is what drives me!" Judge Gabranth

User Info: CVGnaoki

CVGnaoki
4 weeks ago#6
I think people just get frustrated with Apocrypha in general because it's a huge cast and so the focus on characters is scattered and results in a lot of them being underdeveloped. Sieg and Jeanne being relatively low-key and more standard characters also doesn't give them the most favorable comparison to big personalities like Astolfo or Kairi/Mordred or Shakespeare.

I feel like the final conflict with Amakusa is also a bit mixed...like you can see what they were going with by having this "not even a human" human fight against this guy with lofty ideals of how he would push humanity to a new stage, but Jeanne was also a perfectly fine candidate for that confrontation. Plus you get a random Fran powerup that, as a Fran fan, kinda bugged me to see Sieg pull that out. And they wasted Spartacus! :(

User Info: Fezta

Fezta
4 weeks ago#7
He skipped best girl Astolfo. Screw that guy.
I want you to know I hate you personally.

User Info: MaidKnight404

MaidKnight404
4 weeks ago#8
@VirusLord

The funny part of all that is that while mordred and astolfo have enough charisma to cover for the entire rest of the cast...neither one has the charisma skill in this game.
My Fate/Grand Order (JP) Friend Bind is 484,416,786 (Vasche)

User Info: Mega_Gardevoir

Mega_Gardevoir
4 weeks ago#9
LostInTheAbyss posted...
The main issue is that Sieg's type of character needs something better to bounce off than Jeanne, and his power scaling moved way too fast. He's a Nasu character, and just going off the archetype it shows, but Higashide couldn't pull it off in the Apocrypha LN.

He was a lot funner in the Apocrypha event. In general that event was a much better showing for the cast, and the characters bounced off each other well

Would you say his power scaling is worse than Shirou going from "Newbie mage with defective Magic Circuits" to "fighting and winning against Mr King of Heroes". I mean, Sieg had limited uses of Siegfried, and Astolfo wasn't considered the strongest Servant like Saber was. A lot of his powers were borrowed and merely making use his body being that of a mana battery. His own combat didn't develop much beyond a few spells and basic sword strikes.

VirusLord posted...
...I dunno, I didn't really enjoy Apocrypha. I guess there's a lot of little reasons why. There were so many characters that it never felt like there was time to actually properly develop or connect with any of them, and the whole production felt less like a cohesive plot and more like a loose collection of cool ideas all blended together.

True, the series was too short to really develop 16 Servants and 9 Masters, even with it getting thinned down to 9 and 4-5 in the later half. But I kind of felt that way with Zero too. Both series felt very de-centralized compared to the typical shonen faire in FSN.

VirusLord posted...
(and we didn't even get to see how she ended up as a rogue Servant)

It was explained that her og Master tried to sacrifice "Mommy" during the summoning, but Jack saved her instead. She was grateful, so she tried to help Jack despite not being a mage. I suppose they could've animated it for a more lasting effect.

But I do find myself agreeing with most of your points about the action and such. After UBW and Zero this show seemed to have a much smaller budget dedicated to it. I still enjoyed it well enough for what it was. Plus I got to know more about 3 of my Servants in FGO.

I am looking forward to the collab myself! Chiron was my favorite Servant and Achilles helped me a lot in JP Caster farming quests. Hear good things about it.
MG

User Info: Nuerogenesis

Nuerogenesis
4 weeks ago#10
I have no strong feelings about Sieg.

It was a bad show.
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