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  1. Boards
  2. Fate / Grand Order
  3. Should rulers take 600% damage from avenger and deal 1/6 damage?

User Info: shootingfoul

shootingfoul
4 weeks ago#1
I was reading class relation just today and just realized how broken rules are. They take 50% damage from all classes, not to mention gets a 110% modifier....o.O...what is their downside?

I noticed that they are countered by avengers, but when I looked into the servant pool, I was shocked to realize how few avengers there are in the game compared to other classes....

From a balancing stand point, I was thinking: For a class that safe, in order to balance that, you need equivalent draw backs to it to justify it. So how about:

hit by Avenger: 100% bonus damage(normal) + 150% bonus damage(+25 per class) + 200% bonus damage(for how rare you will run into your counters, look at the avenger pool vs any other class)

same concept for damage dealt to avenger, except you'll deal 2/9 the damage.

To sum it up, rulers will probably get one shotted by avengers and do nothing to them, however, due to their inherit lack of weakness, a Kryptonite is needed to justify such a broad advantage. Plus, what are the actual chances you'll run into an avenger anyway?

Do you think that is fair? Or does rulers actually have a weakness that I am not aware of?

Edit: I did the math wrong. Ruler's net advantage is actually only 300% and only on the defense side. Therefore bonus class damage needs to be halfed to 150% and total is 450%...not 600%

User Info: Dishware

Dishware
4 weeks ago#2
shootingfoul posted...
Do you think that is fair? Or does rulers actually have a weakness that I am not aware of?


Yes. Neutral damage is both a strength and a flaw. Besides the Ruler might be tanky, but the other units on the frontline (casters most likely) aren't.

Rulers are very widely applicable but from a different perspective they are very niche. That is their gimmick.

Unlike Rulers, Avengers are very offensively orientated in their skillsets, allowing them to overcome the issue that is dealing neutral damage to everything.

User Info: MrSmokestack

MrSmokestack
4 weeks ago#3
Rulers are extremely rare to fight as an enemy in this game. Buffing Avengers like that would just put the player at a severe disadvantage for no good reason.

Even looking at class matchups on paper, Rulers are only advantaged against one class other than Berserker: Mooncancer. Offensively they are very niche.

You also seem to be overstating how useful the damage reduction is for being a Ruler. Obviously you have double your displayed health against 7 of the game's classes, but none of the Rulers, in practice, are anywhere near immortal.
"Nice hustle, tons of fun! Next time eat a salad." -Scout

User Info: nghiango1989

nghiango1989
4 weeks ago#4
Then come a cheating Ruler who broke all other rules about Ruler. He got Invincibility, Taunt, Crit Steroid, and Attack Steroid all in his NP. His skills can reduce all enemies' NP gauge, inflict defense debuff, give him a chance to stun all enemies, increase his attack, charge his own NP, remove debuffs, and recover his HP. What is this monster?
https://grandorder.wiki/Shi_Huang_Di
Ishana, Daitenshou!!!

User Info: FiendEmperor

FiendEmperor
4 weeks ago#5
As the above two have mentioned, Rulers might take half damage, but they also deal normal damage to everything. So while they take less damage per round, they also can’t finish in as few rounds. Number of rounds goes up, while damage per round goes down. It all stays about equal.

Honestly, the rulers in the game need some help (except Mothman and Sherlock). Martha’s skill shouldn’t be limited to terrain (those kinds of gates suck). Jeanne and Amakusa need skill overhauls. Their NP’s are absolutely fantastic, but other than that, they need help.

User Info: Executor15

Executor15
4 weeks ago#6
There is a reason people don't use Rulers in the game
They kinda suck

You are better off using someone with class advantage
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"All religious people are animals." out of context quote from me

User Info: MrSmokestack

MrSmokestack
4 weeks ago#7
It's also worth noting that whenever Rulers appear as enemies, they tend to have far less health than usual. This is balanced out by their class advantage giving them double their displayed health. For example, Dantes having 160k HP and Amakusa having only 80k in one of the Preliminary rounds of last Nero Fest.

The first actually challenging Ruler boss shows up with Agartha. After that, they aren't noteworthy for another year.

And finally, to address the elephant in the room: Jeanne Alter exists. That is all.
"Nice hustle, tons of fun! Next time eat a salad." -Scout

User Info: shootingfoul

shootingfoul
4 weeks ago#8
MrSmokestack posted...
It's also worth noting that whenever Rulers appear as enemies, they tend to have far less health than usual. This is balanced out by their class advantage giving them double their displayed health. For example, Dantes having 160k HP and Amakusa having only 80k in one of the Preliminary rounds of last Nero Fest.

The first actually challenging Ruler boss shows up with Agartha. After that, they aren't noteworthy for another year.

And finally, to address the elephant in the room: Jeanne Alter exists. That is all.


That is actually good to know that they half their hp. I keep forgetting this is not a PvP game, so it is more forgivable if the advantage is only given to the player.

User Info: DarklordMephist

DarklordMephist
4 weeks ago#9
nghiango1989 posted...
Then come a cheating Ruler who broke all other rules about Ruler. He got Invincibility, Taunt, Crit Steroid, and Attack Steroid all in his NP. His skills can reduce all enemies' NP gauge, inflict defense debuff, give him a chance to stun all enemies, increase his attack, charge his own NP, remove debuffs, and recover his HP. What is this monster?
https://grandorder.wiki/Shi_Huang_Di

That isn't cheating... it is being f a b u l o u s
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User Info: Hoid

Hoid
4 weeks ago#10
What?

That’s stupid, Rulers are fine as they are.

The drawback is neutral damage, they are never the optimal pick versus any particular adversary since they won’t hit as hard as a Servant with class advantage.

Their strength though is you can put Rulers against pretty much everything and they will fight well.

Martha Ruler is one of my top units and is INCREDIBLE with Buster Crits.

I was using her before Merlin came out with fantastic results, and now that Merlin is here she shreds.

Garaunteed power from Buster crits with nothing common that resists her means she can pivot against different threats like a total CHAMP

Nerfing them is a horrible idea
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