Understanding Gilgamesh, the so called "king of heroes" Fate / Grand Order

ZetachiDeQues posted...

Did someone summon me? Im not able to go in detail yet so Ill be barebones here.

FSN Gil is not the true Gil, its basically Gil forced into being a villian and he was quite poorly written with unflushed out abilities. the in canon reason he is chaotic stupid is from being drenched into the mud of angra .

If you want to see how he actually acts, look at him in CCC, as in zero he had one of the most imcompatable masters he could have, its ironic that word of god also said that Rin and Gil would get along swimmingly. Gilgamesh rebels against the gods and admires the potentual of humanity, he did noy accept immortality that would require subjugation to the gods. He also said the event with the snake made him the happiest he has ever been, to be forced to be frustrated and human.

One of the first acts Gil made when returning to Uruk was to examine and fortify the walls. He was the one king that saw acts of engineering and prosperity showed greatness rather than conquest. So while he can admire Alexanders tenacity, he also found it childish, it was the type of dream he couldnt help but acknowledge though since he wants people to florish. As for camelot, "The perfect camelot full of perfect knights! My, I wouldnt last a day there". sums it up best.

He also is a bit of a goofbowl, when his master has to eat Elizabeths terrible cooking, he wise cracks and says "you know I have a noble phantasm for food poisoning but even I dont think it will help you." He also basically tells the MC to "veat that death flag you set up for yourself". His banter with the MC is hilarious, like when he asks the MC to transfer his additional funding to fill up an alternate vault, the MC says he is broke. Gil then actually starts tearing up upon seeing the "broke college student" so the MC threatens to strip him of his armor and sell it at auction.

Also want to quicky address the artoria thing, he basically says to Gawain in CCC that he and camelots king are completely incompatable. There is a lot more to that but him going after her in the first place made no sense except to continue the love rivalry from prototype.

Oh and this line here:

“Very well. Struggle to your heart's content.
On this path that you have so forged of your own will and desire,
I shall walk with you.”

Gil really is a bro, he just had horrible masters and writing at the start.

:l

He didn't have a poor writing actualy, through he was displayed with being cartooninsh, that was actualy the intent, he was written to be bad. He He wasn't corrupted by the mud to the point of blackening, through like you said, it is commonly acepted that it did take a tool on his personality.
Gilgamesh moods changes depending on the state of humanity in he was summoned, and in events of the 4 and 5 Grail Wars, he is in the "Worst Mood Overall". He displays a better personality in the events of Extra CCC and Grand Order. While he still considers Enkidu to be his only friend, he can acknowledge anothers as worthy, thing that in the Novels, only happened with Iskander, Waver and at Fate Route Saber.
He wants to bring humanity back to the point in where they are Worth of Living (not Age of Gods, Gilgamesh despises them), even through it is by the means of Genocide. It doesn't justify the acts, BUT by taking Extra and the hypotetical world of Notes, Gilgamesh method could possible spare humanity from anihilation. They (humans) kill the planet or it is dryed of magic by a vampiric ritual, them Gaia summons the Aristoteles to wipe humans out, for outliving the planet and being partialy responsible for its destruction.

I also despise the guy, and part of that comes from the fact that I've read the actual Epic of Gilgamesh. The dude went through a lot of crap because of the gods, and he had a really life-changing journey after that. To read that and then come to this arrogant, gaudy, evil king who, while principled, was thoroughly messed up in the brain (Even in Fate/Zero, he was twisted; I can't really buy the "grail damaged his personality" explanation) was an unpleasant shocker for me.

Although, if what TheCroix said is true, then this Gil makes perfect sense; Gil before his journey was definitely proud as heck and did whatever the hell he wanted. If Caster Gilgamesh really is the King after his failed journey, then my interest in that particular servant has shot up immensely.

So yeah, Archer Gil is a pretty spot-on representation of the actual Gilgamesh from the legend before his journey. I try to admire his steadfast principles and raw power, but he's just such a horrible human being x.x He and Kirei made me sick when I rewatched Fate/Zero a few months ago.

Gil in FS/N is corrupted by Angra Mainyu, which has made him chaotic and wild. He's not a proper servant by the time of FS/N, but a servant with an incarnated flesh body that he keeps powered with mana by having Kirei sacrifice the souls of orphans in a basement beneath the church. There is a lot of difference between this Gil and even the Gil that appears in Fate/Zero, which is the proper servant Gil until the end when he is doused by the Grail's corruption. This is primarily why in Fate/Zero Gilgamesh has almost no interest in the Holy Grail, but in FS/N it is his all-consuming goal.

In lore Gilgamesh is a demi-god, 2/3 deity by some accounts, with superhuman strength who built the great city of Uruk and led the people of Sumeria into an enlightened age in a relatively harsh and unyielding environment. He was the embodiment of a king, and was arrogant enough to actually rebuff the charms of the goddess Ishtar when she came courting (it's complicated), and strong enough to withstand the following heavenly punishment (also complicated). He saw only one man as a friend and equal, which was of course Enkidu who was a man literally made by the Gods to be his opposite and equal as the King of Beasts, and in his final years he came to accept his human mortality after seeking and failing to acquire immortality. In this way despite his greatness he was both a King Above Men, and still stood among them under heaven.

In the Fate universe they focus a lot on his uniqueness from humanity, as Gil represents not only the pinnacle of kings, but a God-created "guardian of ancient humanity"; as such he stands as far above humans as the Gods do above him. Thus he tends to make a fairly terrible Servant in most Grail Wars, as Servants by nature must actually "serve". As the ruler of Uruk's very structured and "enlightened" civilization he respects those who are hard-working and craftsmen, and dismisses those he sees as acting greatly above their station (or in Shirou's case, copycat fakers). In Fate/Zero he finds the earnest Kirei much more interesting than his actual master, whose personality he sees as manipulative and deceiving, and on a whim encourages a camaraderie between them. He is likewise fascinated with the other kings of history who he sees as people who may understand him better than the masses even if they will never reach the status of he or Enkidu, which leads to his interest in both Arturia and Alexander.

In typical appearances such as non-Grail wars like Ataraxia and Fate/Extra CCC and also in Fate/Zero, Gil is mostly just portrayed as "bored". Very little interests him, so he is constantly looking for something that will amuse him, especially if he doesn't care about the overarching confrontation such as in Ataraxia and Zero, though he becomes a very solid support if he DOES take interest, such as what happens with the fight against BB in CCC.

When we meet his Caster version in Grand Order it will be the living Gilgamesh, and he will follow a very CCC-esque character dynamic which should make you appreciate him a lot more. Caster Gil is more reserved than Archer Gil, but you're more or less helping him on his cause rather than the other way around so he's a lot better about it.

After reading everyone’s posts, I see the qualities in him. However, Gilgamesh will always remain one of my most despised characters in all of fiction simply for what he’s done, and lack of humility. From this day, I won’t bash his character. (Try not to anyway.) Thanks for your explanations everyone. My Fool arcana went up another rank.

No offense TC, don't mean to start an argument or anything, but there are a lot of characters out there that have done so much worse. Just saying.

Are you planing to do more boards like these Skeith? They are good discussion topics!

While I hate Gil in UBW due to killing Illya, I have to say that in general, he is the epitome of ubermensch.

ChingTheMonkey posted...

No offense TC, don't mean to start an argument or anything, but there are a lot of characters out there that have done so much worse. Just saying.

This. I mean, even in FSN, you have Shinji and Zouken. Gil looks like a hero by comparison. *Laughs*

DarklordMephist posted...

Are you planing to do more boards like these Skeith? They are good discussion topics!

Agreed, this is kinda fun.

22whiterabbit22 posted...

ChingTheMonkey posted...

No offense TC, don't mean to start an argument or anything, but there are a lot of characters out there that have done so much worse. Just saying.

This. I mean, even in FSN, you have Shinji and Zouken. Gil looks like a hero by comparison. *Laughs*

DarklordMephist posted...

Are you planing to do more boards like these Skeith? They are good discussion topics!

Agreed, this is kinda fun.

Yea I agree shinji and zouken are scums of humanity (I will admit Gilgamesh is definitely better than them), especially shinji for constantly taking “advantage” of poor Sakura.... and yes I’ll do more of these topics. I’m glad everyone’s having fun LOL

God I got rekd by germs today.
I dont really want to start a debate but someone did respond so Ill clarefy my thoughts a bit.
DarklordMephist posted...

stuff

Its my opinion that the stay night route is wrtten badly, plus nasu fully admitted that the "boy meets girl" story worked better for tohno than shirou. Nasu even said that shirous sexism was less shirous character but more Nasu the author himself reminding himself that "saber is supposed to be a girl." Plus, I might be able dig a bit later but Gilgamesh says to saber at some point "immortality? I dont need it, I let the snake have it" which would imply he has his full memories of his journey..Since he has those memories, he should be wizened, and not a tyrant (Im pretty sure this was in the VN, but It could have been only in DEEN stay night).
as for the blackening, No I dont mean he was altered as he cannot be corrupted but his mindset did change. I dont like the "era influences him" bit because it affects Gil and only Gil. Nasu is the same guy who flip flopped on ryougi after all. Imo staring into the grails true nature gave him some dark inspiration, hence "corruption". On another note, Tokiomi was that guy who tier whores in a fighting game. He had no respect for Gil and lied to his face constantly as Gil was only a tool for him. The caster battle in general was just a ploy to get more command spells after all. So really, anyone would be disgruntled at that kind of action from a mongrel wanting just an "I win" button without actually putting work.

Ok I probably need to die now.

:l