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  3. Anybody else rarely bother with 2nd Run?

User Info: Trigger Zero

Trigger Zero
2 months ago#31
I suppose I came in in the middle of (edit: a really old!!!!) argument to give what I see is a controversial opinion. The only runs I play in RE2 Remake are second runs, and to me it's the initial run that is pointless. Well at the very least less fun.

In the first scenario, there's a lot more interruptions for story at the start and the opening act at the gas station is basically on rails, essentially being a tutorial for better or worse. As atmospheric as it is, it's long enough to be a nuisance and is no replacement for the true final boss, which is omitted on the initial run.

The opening act in second run is actually a gauntlet, forcing the player to dodge the zombies they wind up in the middle of before getting to the guardhouse. In the first few moments before the zombies get up, the player can decide to dump a bullet here or there at a foot or two, or gamble with headshots to make things easier.

One of the best things about Second Run is getting the submachine gun/magnum and their upgrades just in time for the first G fight. Anyone can argue for or against it, but the submachine gun in particular is exceptional at removing limbs, and one shot from the enhanced magnum will make... well it will unmake anyone's day.

There's the fact that the device to restore power at the Nest is made available before opening the bridges, making getting the item expansion there much more useful since it's available for the Plant 43 section.

The mode unique weapons are, in my opinion, the most consequential changes to Second Run. They are much stronger than the weapons that take normal handgun ammo. Claire can kill many zombies with a six round burst even when aimed at the belly, and won't need much more if the initial burst fails to kill. Leon's second handgun packs more of a punch, making limb severing a lot easier.

Then there's just the fact that the player starts off right where the first run begins in earnest, and has full reign of the east wing, up to and including access to the weapon box key and chain cutters. The player is not cut off upon entering the west wing until they get the Spade Key. The player can immediately obtain and use the shotgun/grenade launcher, meaning that several upcoming encounters are suddenly made so much easier. I also mentioned getting the magnum/submachine gun early.

If the player is doing a speed run, they can just grab the bolt cutters, grab the key at the guardhouse, run and grab the fuse, make way toward the valve handle, and go around to the west hallway (with the licker whose appearance here is unique to Second Run lololol) where they have instant access to the C4 because of the bolt cutters. After a detour to get the key on the third floor, they can make use of the valve and beeline toward the STARS office, basically trivializing the police station section as they can get all the medallions in one go. It's surprising how fast this can be done. The first run demands the initial gas station run through, the introductory east hallway run, going through the west hallway and the point of no return, grabbing the key, grabbing the bolt cutters, getting the valve handle, grabbing the C4, THEN going back to get to the STARS office and then get the medallions.

Then of course there's the final boss and extended finale. Overall Second Run feels more complete despite missing the gas station, which is admittedly a very cinematic setpiece. A more difficult starting area, extra weapons, powerful weapons being available sooner, more meaningful choices on how to approach the run either as a speedrun or as a more comfortable run with powerful weapons, and the extra final boss and extended ending all make the Second Run more worthwhile to play.

In my opinion. Not looking to debate semantics.
Such be all of humanity, a species clinging to hopes that reality be but a dream that they may wake from it in Heaven.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: Ryan86

Ryan86
2 months ago#32
It's nice to see different opinions. The reasons that @Trigger_Zero sees as positives for his experience, I personally see as negatives for me! And it's okay, it makes me glad that we are not the same.

(and not to sound like I'm just doing a generic response, I'm a college math teacher, so I honestly like hearing other thoughts and trying to understand them, as humans aren't described by math. And I can truly understand why his reasons can be positive ones while being negative ones for me)
Barely playing online anymore. =\

User Info: Tyrant103

Tyrant103
2 months ago#33
ultimagameboy posted...
Or... it could have ended after my very first reply. Or I could have not commented on it at all in the first place, or they could have done the same. Lots of could have's, would have's etc... at the end of the day this is a public forum for discussion. If I see a silly or ridiculous statement, I may well choose to call it out as such. If the person wants to dig their heels in after that? *shrug* Then I have every freedom to keep replying. You want to talk about reason? I see very, very little reason for your four-months late contribution, to be honest.
Yeah but you chose to keep going and going. He tried to end it amicably when he said "we can agree to disagree " but then you went on to mock him and that's where you turned into a dick. The way Leon holds the gun sideways is a mechanical problem because the reticle moves when he aims that way. It's very obvious when you try to shoot a zombie through a cracked door because he doesn't hold his hand steady.

User Info: ultimagameboy

ultimagameboy
2 months ago#34
Tyrant103 posted...
Yeah but you chose to keep going and going. He tried to end it amicably when he said "we can agree to disagree " but then you went on to mock him and that's where you turned into a dick.
Nope. There was no mockery, they just chose to take it personally and got offended that I called out their hyperbole. Also, the argument was changed and the word logical was brought in, which has nothing to do with what was originally said. As I clearly pointed out and explained in my reply.

The way Leon holds the gun sideways is a mechanical problem because the reticle moves when he aims that way. It's very obvious when you try to shoot a zombie through a cracked door because he doesn't hold his hand steady.
This is patently, demonstrably and objectively false. The position and action of the reticule is identical; the only difference is Leon's character model and animation. Very simple.
We gotta carpe the diem, take the bull by the scrote, go for the gold and forge it into matching nipple rings - Fetch

User Info: Tyrant103

Tyrant103
2 months ago#35
ultimagameboy posted...
Nope. There was no mockery, they just chose to take it personally and got offended that I called out their hyperbole. Also, the argument was changed and the word logical was brought in, which has nothing to do with what was originally said. As I clearly pointed out and explained in my reply.

This is patently, demonstrably and objectively false. The position and action of the reticule is identical; the only difference is Leon's character model and animation. Very simple.
It is not false, when was the last time you played the game? The reticle moves when he tries to hold his hand steady https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_yH7XtA8rLI

User Info: ultimagameboy

ultimagameboy
1 month ago#36
Tyrant103 posted...
It is not false, when was the last time you played the game? The reticle moves when he tries to hold his hand steady https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_yH7XtA8rLI
It is false. The time of my last playthrough is irrelevant; only that my first runs through the game were Claire A followed by Leon B (used the 1911 before the Matilda), followed by multiple playthroughs of both 1st and 2nd runs with each character, thus gaining solid familiarity with all their weapons and the game's shooting mechanics.

I'm going to assume that what you're referring to in the video if from 13:52 where he says; "I did notice, though, while Leon was shooting it does do a bit of a jolt. Like that [shoots]. So, I feel like they made aiming slightly tougher because he does it like that." Yeah? Okay, so, what he's describing there is the game's recoil mechanic at work. Very basic, very simple for shooters. Maybe he should have paid closer attention to his own testing, because then he would have realised that the "little jolt" isn't a unique feature to the 1911. It happens with every single gun. So he got a "feeling" that the aiming was tougher. Unfortunately feelings aren't facts.

The only difference with the 1911 is the angle of the "jolt". It goes up and to the left diagonally to match up with how Leon's is holding it. That's it. If you watch the previous video to this where he's firing the Matilda, you'll see the exact same "jolt" mechanic happening, only the recoil is more upwards and slightly to the right. The reticule is positioned exactly the same (dead centre), the snap in and out behaves exactly the same. Aiming and firing is, therefore, virtually identical from a gameplay/mechanical standpoint. The only difference is a slightly altered direction of recoil - a visual feature. Thus, there is no "mechanical problem" here, no matter how you feel about the visual details. It's just that simple.
We gotta carpe the diem, take the bull by the scrote, go for the gold and forge it into matching nipple rings - Fetch

User Info: KINGR1P

KINGR1P
1 month ago#37
Are you guys really debating whether Leon aims weird or not because he poses differently?
PSN: Rip_Da_Prince

User Info: Tyrant103

Tyrant103
1 month ago#38
ultimagameboy posted...
It is false. The time of my last playthrough is irrelevant; only that my first runs through the game were Claire A followed by Leon B (used the 1911 before the Matilda), followed by multiple playthroughs of both 1st and 2nd runs with each character, thus gaining solid familiarity with all their weapons and the game's shooting mechanics.

I'm going to assume that what you're referring to in the video if from 13:52 where he says; "I did notice, though, while Leon was shooting it does do a bit of a jolt. Like that [shoots]. So, I feel like they made aiming slightly tougher because he does it like that." Yeah? Okay, so, what he's describing there is the game's recoil mechanic at work. Very basic, very simple for shooters. Maybe he should have paid closer attention to his own testing, because then he would have realised that the "little jolt" isn't a unique feature to the 1911. It happens with every single gun. So he got a "feeling" that the aiming was tougher. Unfortunately feelings aren't facts.

The only difference with the 1911 is the angle of the "jolt". It goes up and to the left diagonally to match up with how Leon's is holding it. That's it. If you watch the previous video to this where he's firing the Matilda, you'll see the exact same "jolt" mechanic happening, only the recoil is more upwards and slightly to the right. The reticule is positioned exactly the same (dead centre), the snap in and out behaves exactly the same. Aiming and firing is, therefore, virtually identical from a gameplay/mechanical standpoint. The only difference is a slightly altered direction of recoil - a visual feature. Thus, there is no "mechanical problem" here, no matter how you feel about the visual details. It's just that simple.
I'm not referring to anything that he is saying in the video the time frame is close. If you look while Leon holds the gun it does intact move on its own. Do you still have the game? The Matilda doesn't move at all but the M19 Does move. Compare the two it is very subtle hardly even noticeable but it becomes very noticeable when you try to shoot a zombie through a Crack in the door. It's almost impossible to do with the M19 and you can test this once you get the gun cause that's when I noticed it. Again not talking about the recoil I'm talking when he stands still before he even fires the gun.

User Info: Tyrant103

Tyrant103
1 month ago#39
On top of the cross hair that moves more, Leon even opens the door differently with M19 so it is definitely a mechanical difference. With the M19 it's harder for Leon to open a door halfway than with the Matilda. Just turn the game on and stop being a -know it all- and you'd see.p

User Info: ultimagameboy

ultimagameboy
1 month ago#40
Tyrant103 posted...
I'm not referring to anything that he is saying in the video the time frame is close. If you look while Leon holds the gun it does intact move on its own. Do you still have the game? The Matilda doesn't move at all but the M19 Does move. Compare the two it is very subtle hardly even noticeable but it becomes very noticeable when you try to shoot a zombie through a Crack in the door. It's almost impossible to do with the M19 and you can test this once you get the gun cause that's when I noticed it. Again not talking about the recoil I'm talking when he stands still before he even fires the gun.
And again; this is false. Both characters with all handguns have that slight 'sway' animation as they breathe and the gun they're holding does move ever-so-slightly. It's part of the character model / animation. What doesn't move, however, is the reticule. That moves and behaves exactly the same. It only moves if the player moves it (or the character), or when they fire the gun, resulting in the recoil jolt. Pretending for a moment that you were correct, however, I still fail to see how this "very subtle hardly even noticable" feature of the M19 constitutes a mechanical problem with the game, or comes anywhere near close enough of an issue to ruin or 'cripple' the entire game mode. The fact is - it wouldn't, and any argument to the contrary would be a very dramatic overstatement. Just like I originally pointed out. And the original poster even clarified that they weren't talking about 'more challenging aiming' and that it was purely an aesthetic issue on their part.
We gotta carpe the diem, take the bull by the scrote, go for the gold and forge it into matching nipple rings - Fetch
(edited 1 month ago)
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