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  3. RE2 Remake seems like a game made by people who have no idea why RE2 was great.

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

5 months ago#1
[**I keep seeing gameplay/plot information about REmake2 posted in topic titles. Apparently everyone here just loves spoiling the game for themselves by watching gameplay vids that show entire sections, encounters, and boss fights. I don't do that, so later in this topic when I begin listing things about the remake I'll be basing my info off of what others have posted on this board, so feel free to correct any REmake 2 misinformation in my posts.]

BREAKING NEWS: REmake2 was only considered for development because of people who bought, supported, and loved RE2 when it initially came out and have slammed message boards and petitions with dreams of a remake since 2002 (when REmake 1 came out).

So then why are they screwing with REmake2 so badly?

You could argue "They're developing REmake 2 for new fans" but you'll find yourself right back at the factual starting-point that without the RE2 supporters & demand this would never had been CONSIDERED being remade for "new fans". Chicken, egg.
So if you're not making a game for your already established fanbase that asked for it, but you ARE making it for people who only heard of RE2 through word-of-mouth or watched a Youtube playthrough...then you're really not making this game for anybody at all. You're placing your bets on an unestablished fanbase (new players) versus the people that gave you the reason to make the game in the first place?

How is this good for business???

Dumb business is exactly what happened with Street Fighter V: Capcom placed their bets on new players and eSports but completely pissed off the players that got them up to part V, now it's the most poorly-received Street Fighter ever.

Remakes, HD remasters, and revived sequels only exist because developers know that the millions of people who purchased & supported the original games want them made and have wanted them for a long time. All of the post-RE2 fans, like the RE3 easy-mode babies, the RE4 generic control scheme & melee-prompt plebs, and the RE5/RE6 "I'm taking a break from playing CoD/GTA/MMOs/Sports 2K" casuals did nothing to make RE2 what it is today.

Other fandoms are:
--Final Fantasy VII remake, something that the fanbase have begged for since 2002 and did not want to leave as just a PS3 tech demo.
--Shenmue 3, from a fanbase originally known for massive online petitions and always bringing it up at company Q&A's long before Facebook & Twitter made it an every day thing and marketing technique.
--Soul Calibur II HD, because every sequel since part III in 2005 has been compared to II which everyone in the fanbase knows was the best game in the franchise.
--Windjammers, an old-ass 1994 arcade game that started popping up at post-2010 fighting game tournaments and got heavy exposure from your five-time W...W...E...World...Tag...Team...Champions.
--Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes and Snake Eater 3D, the fanbase obsess with MGS1 and especially MGS3 more than any games in the franchise.
Sonic Mania, Dracula X Chronicles (came with Symphony of the Night), Street Fighter III 3rd Strike online, Darkstalkers HD, Halo Anniversary & Halo 2 HD, Modern Warfare Remastered, Link Between Worlds, etc...

Company dweebs didn't just stand up out of a chair and decided to bring this stuff back for the hell of it. They know they already had a guaranteed profit from an already dedicated fanbase. And that's exactly what Resident Evil 2 has, a dedicated fanbase that looks at a game like REmake 1 and then drools at the thought of anything close to that being done with Resident Evil 2.

I don't think the anyone on this message board gets that, though. People have been way too dismissive and damage-control about these blatantly poor decisions that make REmake2 less and less like the game that gave fans the desire to see it brought back at all.
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

5 months ago#2
This is absolutely unacceptable. When anyone sits down with you and talks about the Top 5 things that RE2 did to make it bigger & better than RE1, it's this. To not include this is a slap in the face. People here are already undermining how cool the concept of this was in 1998 and how much better a modern high-production RE game could make it if the developer wasn't so friggin' lazy. As heavy as RE fandom has become with character-preference over the last 15 years it's disturbingly surprising to see that some "fans" are okay with not being able to once again experience A or B scenario events with the character swap that they prefer with some tiny gameplay-related connections between the two, let alone how much better Capcom could've made it today.

Anyone not bothered by these being scrapped is most likely up for eating up no matter what generically-formed product RE2make is turning out to be when it could be so much better. The developers making a game for the "fans" won't even try to raise the bar that they themselves set, and you're cool with that?

So let me get this straight: RE2make, with what we seen, is shaping up to have an OST that very much favors atmosphere > melody. As anyone who knows about horror games will know: atmosphere only lasts until the part you're playing is over. But a catchy tune (with can capture "atmosphere" just as well) can last even after you turn the game off because now the song is in your head.

But "fans" are okay with REmake 2 being like this, because...you're given the option to just replace it with the old RE2 soundtrack? Basically Capcom is saying: "We're gonna half-ass composing anything worthwhile and just set the mood for you, but if nerds complain about it we'll let them plug-in a soundtrack we composed 20 years ago." And that's okay to "fans"? Because that is some good old fashioned crap-eating from Capcom if I've ever seen it.

It's such a a damn shame. The good 'ol, 80% forgettable, 100% replaceable, most likely Western-cinema inspired background filler that is only there to get you to the next scene. People don't even talk about OSTs in horror games anymore because they're so used to forgetting them in games like Dead Space, Evil Within, Outlast, Until Dawn, etc. Resident Evil 5, 6, 7, Rev1, Rev2, even REmake1 have definitely fallen into the category of the average fan only remembering around two BGMs at most, and those tuned are most like not playing in their heads as they reminisce about playing the game.

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. All this talk about "atmosphere" and creating more of a "horror" game, and they decide to up the amount of chatter and small-talk during actual gameplay on an almost constant basis? Moreso than partner-focused games like RE5, RE6, and the Rev series?

And what are the "fans" here comparing this to so that it doesn't seem so bad: a few cheesy lines that were spoken in actual cutscenes from PS1 games in the 90s? Or the ridiculous amount of Rebecca & Ricard exposition chatter in the decade-old RE rail shooter what was done by Naruto voice actors? You think that equates to hearing constant babble and poorly-delivered lines during intense encounters in a survival-horror game coming out in 2019? Someone on this board has gotta be on Capcom's payroll.

I'm 100% convinced that this was implemented with short-attention spans in mind. The average Teen Titans Go & Sonic Boom watching, GTA & CoD loving, millennial superstars don't want to subjected to the dreaded "awkward silence" in a freakin' horror game. Players these days most likely prefer to be subjected to constant small-talk with a few quips here and there...because obviously nobody gives a crap about the game's soundtrack.
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: Mr_M0j0_Rising

5 months ago#3
This is way too long for a troll post.
PSN: o-MrMojoRisin-o
Laugh and the world laughs with you; weep and you weep alone

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

5 months ago#4
I'll try to keep this simple because people mostly resort to the "subjective" card on this one.

RE2 Leon was not created to look like an actual living, breathing person. Neither was RE2 Claire. They were designed by an artist with pen, paper, and Windows 95. Then viola, you had two cool looking, heroic, easy-on-the-eyes characters that fans can quickly identify whenever their hair looks too heavy on one side (RE4 Leon) or when they suddenly seem to be going through a wicked combination of age and bad plastic surgery (Rev2 Claire).

REmake2 Leon and Claire are face-scanned after living, breathing people to create a more "realistic" look for two video game characters that fans have never cherished or adored for their realism. The models are a Romanian dude-bro and someone whose head stopped aging at 14. People we don't care about, people we didn't ask to look at, and people that make us think Capcom will eventually just hire cosplayers for the 3D models in the games that we play.

This is once again the odd route, the fan-bypassing route, and it's why 10 years from now we'll still be talking about how there was just something clearly not right about how Leon and Claire looked in this game with the occasional comment of "They look fine to me, for real, I'd bang this Claire." Why fans think that it's okay for iconic characters to be face-swapped on the grounds of realism and getting models paid is pretty baffling to me, especially considering the most adored thing about the entire RE franchise is how cool the characters look and when we get to see them again.

I thought it may be a bit too dumb to get into this, but then I thought about the idea that Capcom just *wants* me to be too dumb to get into this, because I do feel there's a serious conflict of interest here. Please read on.

I'm pulling a bit from my above rant about these characters and their "iconic" looks. Those old faces and outfits are the visions we strongly remember the characters by as we grew attached to them, they are part of the empowering images we've always had of them, and we always look forward to seeing those outfits re-done or tweaked to look even cooler than how they did back in 1998.

Bottom line: nobody wanted to see Claire put on what is basically her lame-ass Rev2 outfit. And yes, I agree, MAYBE some tweaks need to be made to classic RE2 Claire's lower body. Some people are being a bit too in-demand of keeping the legs exposed for what is usually pushed aside as body pillow behavior, BUT the main thing here is: her upper body was absolutely fine the way it was AND it was pretty damn cool.

What do the fans say about this change? "Well ackchyually...the devs said her RE2 outfit would make no sense because she's riding a motorcycle on a rainy night."

WELL THEN WHY THE HELL IS IT RAINING NOW??? Whose the idiot code-monkey developing this game that desires SO BADLY to incorporate a rainy September night (in a remake of all things) that the other guy whose developing Claire's model has to go "Oh damn, well if he's doing that I guess I'd better put a raincoat on her since it makes no sense for her to not be wearing one. On second thought, why would anyone even ride a motorcycle at night in the rain??? Let's call up Subaru and get some more marketing in this game; it wouldn't make sense for Claire to not own a car that's not trendy."

Shilling bullcrap. But let's be real here: they're just giving us a crappy new outfit to butter us up for the eventual classic outfit DLC that all of you are going to pay for.
[*FUN FACT: when people want reasons for Claire being trained to tactically hold a gun & flashlight they get the 'Duh, she was trained by Chris' response. But when people ask why she's not rocking the Redfield knife-on-the-shoulder look they get the 'Eh it makes no sense for her, I'm glad it's gone']
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

5 months ago#5
By the time you're done with this section you will know Capcom is screwing with you and the "fans" are just taking it.

Now I know what you're thinking: "You can't say Capcom or the fans 'don't know what made RE2 great' by bringing up things that weren't even in RE2." That's very true. I won't say that not incorporating elements from 1.5 is a slap-in-the-face to fans, but I will say that is a GREATLY missed opportunity that Capcom most likely did not want to put the extra effort into.

RE1.5 has got to be one of the most requested unfinished games in history. If the FIRST most requested thing in RE2 fandom was an RE2 remake, then guaranteed, the SECOND most requested thing in RE2 fandom is playing anything related to RE1.5. Every hardcore RE2 fan knows this and Capcom knows this. A Resident Evil 2 remake having a bit of 1.5 in it seems like such a no-brainer to give the fans the greatest modern RE2 experience cocktail of all time...and Capcom didn't do it, even knowing that we would've loved it.

But wait!
Tsuyoshi Kanda, most famous for marketing Capcom ports & remakes that he had absolutely nothing to do with, says:

"The simple answer is no – we really wanted to pay respect to the game that actually saw the light of day. I think it would definitely have been an interesting element – to incorporate the things that you saw in RE 1.5. It would’ve been interesting for fans to see that. At the end of the day, though, we wanted to pay tribute to the game that most players actually came into contact with and try out. Having said that, we did take the Eliza costume and made that kind of as an easter egg present to the fans DLC. So that was something where we kind of said ‘alright, let’s take this’. So, please buy the digital deluxe version!"

#1. 'Naw, we want to focus on the actual RE2 everyone played.'
#2. 'Oh but we did do some 1.5 Eliza costume thing.'
#3. 'It's DLC. Go buy it, nerd.'

Now you know.

I'll keep this short and civil. Just about everything that can be said about this issue has been.

OTS gameplay is easy and marketable. Anyone can pick it up and play it. It's the money-maker option and accessibility will always be more profitable than art in the gaming industry. The modern RE audience prefers this and Capcom won't risk a high-production product by going back to tank controls with this new audience.

When people talk about wanting the classic Fixed Camera gameplay back it's not because it's the "right thing to do for an RE2 remake", it's because RE2 was a game that did Fixed at its best. Fixed offers you a playable horror-movie presentation you will never get with OTS, and there has been so much OTS on the market that Capcom having the guts to do a brand new Fixed game from the ground up would've been a great test on the gaming market and modern RE fandom. But alas, tank controls have a notable learning curve, headshots are cool, and learning controls or getting frustrated is not marketable.

It's not a slap to the fans, but it is a damn shame because Fixed is a huge part of why RE2 was the great game it was. Any option to make Fixed Camera gameplay an alternate "mode" would most likely just be a bad afterthought like Lost in Nightmares.

Thank you all for reading, and thank you all for agreeing with me. Be sure to keep repeating that new mantra going around for accepting shoddy work and overlooking a lazy development team:
"It's not a remake. It's a reimagining."

What that pretty much means is: making a new game based on an old game you played, but developed by people who know almost nothing about the old game you played.

"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: TheThirdDay

5 months ago#6
You're giving Suspiria a run for his money, here.

Keep up the... work?
RE series REplay (bold=completed!): 1 2 3 CV 0 REmake 4 R 5 R2 6 7
Now Playing: GTAV, Borderlands 2, Resident Evil 0 HD

User Info: Mr_M0j0_Rising

5 months ago#7
Maybe Suspiria and the other dumb dumbs can congregate in this topic now; away from the intelligent folk.
PSN: o-MrMojoRisin-o
Laugh and the world laughs with you; weep and you weep alone

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

5 months ago#8
Mr_M0j0_Rising posted...
This is way too long

I won't deny that, but the truth is: I actually have something to say.

That is why I respect people like you, Mojo: you keep your posts short, sweet, and 99% neglectable. I almost never have to stop and address your posts because you never have anything to actually say, and that saves me so much time.

Stay short, brother.

(FYI: this response is the 1%)
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: Spade59

5 months ago#9
I agree with some of your points. The soundtrack is disappointing so far, Claire’s redesign is a letdown, what we’ve heard of the dialogue is badly voice-acted and poorly placed, and the OTS perspective was a very uninspired decision.

Capcom knows they can produce a modernized RE2 that appeals a newer generation because nostalgic RE2 fans will buy it regardless.

I’m not convinced the game will be terrible though. Dead Space 1 did atmosphere well with an OTS perspective, we haven’t heard all of the soundtrack or dialogue, and we don’t know what all of the extras are yet.

That said, dream RE2make this is not, and so far it seems wholly inferior to REmake.

User Info: ReceiverxWisdom

5 months ago#10
Nitpicking: The thread.

Especially about the clothes and s***.

Who the f*** cares? Even Chris and Jill were slightly updated for the original REmake.

EDIT: Also the exclusion of 1.5 content seemed reasonable to me. It's a game that Shinji even called "boring" and was scrapped before it was done. The ideas behind 1.5 were interesting, but the execution left a bit to be desired.
R* Social Club ID: Ren_Operative
PSN: LatinChris_9990
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