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  3. What's with so many complaints about the staggering in this game?

User Info: Gradieus

Gradieus
1 week ago#21
Neofabito posted...
"So many" where? Where do you people see all this drama? I swear you guys make things up just to talk.

It's a common complaint on message boards so if you don't think message boards are a good metric then you probably shouldn't be questioning where people get their information while you're on a message board yourself.
recompex posted...
It’s not the problem of the game if one keeps doing the same strategy on all bosses but doesnt seem to work anytime. Yes, I’m talking about attack - build pressure - stagger - go ham. This is a final fantasy game; the bosses don’t adapt to your setup and strategy but rather YOU as a player needs to adapt to the bosses attacks, abilities, phase and whatever they have by optimizing strategies. Having a straightup bossfight with no phases and interactions are very boring and cliche to old FFs too.
This was one of the best parts of the game and most rewarding, there was multiple strategies to beat each boss in various stages of the battle, that you have to figure out on the fly!
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: WhitePointer

WhitePointer
1 week ago#23
The first time you fight a boss, you have no idea when a phase change may occur.

It's not just limit breaks that this can screw over, but also spells, summons, 2-ATB moves or any reasonably powerful attack. The phase shift can not only negate the damage you may have done but will also take your MP and ATB charges. And yes, no matter how you slice it, considering how long they normally take to charge, having a limit break be almost completely negated because a phase shift happened right after you let it go is just dumb.

You should be rewarded for staggering the enemy, as it often requires some specific counterplay to do it. The fights against the Type-0 Behemoth and the summons are great examples of that. But it's way too often the case that you can't take full advantage of the stagger state because of a phase shift.

There are various ways they could have fixed it to not make it too easy and reward bad players, but unpredictable points where bosses become invincible is not a good approach.
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/WhitePointerGaming
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: MySnakesSolid

MySnakesSolid
1 week ago#24
To be fair it was annoying on my first playthrough against some bosses when they enter the cinematic next phase just as I staggered them and waste my ATB... but it's not a big deal and on the 2nd or beyond playthroughs once you know, you know

Same when you cast Aeroga on drakes and they just fly away from it... my ATB just gets wasted!

Little things like that are annoying at first but easy to overcome with experience

And you can even skip certain boss phases if you destroy them quickly enough (e.g. you can beat Hell House before he spits out cutty & sweepy, Bahamut before he summons Ifrit etc.)

User Info: PitchBlackFox

PitchBlackFox
1 week ago#25
staggering as a concept is bad, has been since 13, i dont know why they keep putting it in every FF game they've made since then

User Info: Fwahm

Fwahm
1 week ago#26
The bigger problem is that Limit Breaks are too powerful, especially the level 2 ones. If they weren't so powerful that using them properly breaks battles completely in half if they don't get interrupted by phase changes, then knowing when phase changes are coming or keeping some stagger progress isn't a gamebreaker. My changes on this topic would be:

1: Make Limit Breaks about 1/2 as strong, and also make it so that limit breaks don't get the damage bonus from stagger.

2: If a boss phase changes during a stagger, have the next phase start off with that much progress on the pre-stagger bar (for example, if you phase change a boss when the stagger is 50% depleted, the next phase starts off unstaggered, but 50% the way to the next stagger). If it wasn't staggered at the time, the bar resets fully like normal.

User Info: IreVH

IreVH
1 week ago#27
Fwahm posted...
The bigger problem is that Limit Breaks are too powerful, especially the level 2 ones. If they weren't so powerful that using them properly breaks battles completely in half if they don't get interrupted by phase changes, then knowing when phase changes are coming or keeping some stagger progress isn't a gamebreaker. My changes on this topic would be:

1: Make Limit Breaks about 1/2 as strong, and also make it so that limit breaks don't get the damage bonus from stagger.

2: If a boss phase changes during a stagger, have the next phase start off with that much progress on the pre-stagger bar (for example, if you phase change a boss when the stagger is 50% depleted, the next phase starts off unstaggered, but 50% the way to the next stagger). If it wasn't staggered at the time, the bar resets fully like normal.

That would ruin the essence of Limit Breaks. As mentioned somewhere in this thread, they are failsafes for average gamers that get hit by attacks/abilities frequently at the same time rewards players who know how to implement mechanics in their games. Reducing their damage would destroy their roles as 'failsafe/last resort/reward-worthy' abilities and their nuance from ordinary abilities. Also, them not having to receive the stagger damage bonus is unworthy. No way ordinary abilities deal more damage than super abilities.

I will have to call off number 2 too. It would definitely make the bossfights simple, boring, and braindead easy. People need to learn that staggering is not always the best strategy in every phase in every bosses in the game. In fact, there exists a lot of abilities in the game that deals HIGH base flat damage without needing to stagger. Pairing this with Fury Ring ups your damage by 30% and you'll deal more damage in the long run without having to stagger/use limits.
FF7 Remake no damage/no limits and summon battles playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL38_IcZR5L8guxo5mnLSyRsdqPsQw7KBO
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: XKARedfield

XKARedfield
1 week ago#28
IreVH posted...
That would ruin the essence of Limit Breaks. As mentioned somewhere in this thread, they are failsafes for average gamers that get hit by attacks/abilities frequently at the same time rewards players who know how to implement mechanics in their games. Reducing their damage would destroy their roles as 'failsafe/last resort/reward-worthy' abilities and their nuance from ordinary abilities. Also, them not having to receive the stagger damage bonus is unworthy. No way ordinary abilities deal more damage than super abilities.

I will have to call off number 2 too. It would definitely make the bossfights simple, boring, and braindead easy. People need to learn that staggering is not always the best strategy in every phase in every bosses in the game. In fact, there exists a lot of abilities in the game that deals HIGH base flat damage without needing to stagger. Pairing this with Fury Ring ups your damage by 30% and you'll deal more damage in the long run without having to stagger/use limits.

Well said. I haven't count the numerous times I had my @ss saved thanks to limit breaks in the game. Cutting their damage 1/2 is NOT justice as they would be of same damage level as the character's abilities. And no offense, who would use a limit break at the middle of a phase even with the knowledge that there are phases on each boss?

I also had to agree that staggering is not the viable strategy in all points of a bossfight and that's why I enjoy 7R so much. The fluidity of the combat system allows dynamical adjusting of strategyper boss (and per phase). Pressuring, building up pressure bar, and staggering in almost every bossfight is indeed boring - talk about the abomination that 15's combat system has to offer.

User Info: Fwahm

Fwahm
1 week ago#29
Limit Breaks shouldn't be fail safes for gamers that have battles last so long that they need to rely on them to win battles they otherwise were struggling heavily on. The way they're currently most often used (a bad player struggles and turns a 5 minute fight into a 20 minute marathon with little progress, then instantly wins with a limit unless the boss phase changes) needs to be junked completely. Making them so much more powerful than literally any other option, including Infinity's End during Stagger (especially since several of them have lots of hits, making the damage cap irrelevant) turns them into boring "I Win" buttons by the time you're hit often enough for them to appear.

As for the stagger thing, saving your limit breaks until you can strategically capitalize on them in a stagger goes against the entire concept of the move, which are supposed to be last resort attacks, not planned strategic options. Limit Breaks are so ridiculously powerful that even at half strength and without stagger bonus, they'd still be extremely potent, with very few things outdamaging them even during stagger (like the 2 ATB and very slow Infinity's End, or an MP expensive weakness + stagger -ga spell), and they'd still be your strongest option for when you aren't going to be able to stagger an enemy.

The entire point of the stagger conditions being triggered differently for most bosses absolutely should mean that the optimal strategy should be to go for staggering to reward you for figuring it out (assuming you're not overleveled for the boss), even if it's not the only strategy and other options work just fine without it. The game should consistently reward you for figuring out the boss's unique mechanics, often differing by phase, with the quickest and smoothest kills. Giving a small (because 90% of the time you're not going to hit a phase change with 90% of the stagger left) bonus to stagger progress after phase change isn't going to trivialize anything, especially if limit breaks aren't so ridiculously powerful, but will give the player a feeling of "well, at least my efforts last phase weren't completely wasted just because I pulled it off a bit too late".
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: SilentSeph

SilentSeph
1 week ago#30
It's not the biggest deal in the world but building up the pressure gauge, getting Tifa to max Chi, building everyone's ATB gauges, and planning out a powerful combo to see a satisfyingly high amount of damage just to have that taken away by a cutscene feels like getting blue ball'd. I think they should've buffed boss HP and let their next phase commence after they recover
Delicious and vicious, while maliciously nutritious.
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