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  2. Final Fantasy VII Remake
  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?

User Info: alm0stk00l

alm0stk00l
4 days ago#71
OverlordDeath posted...
So they say, and some of the added content is divisive and unnecessary, even if it winds up being good.

It's undeniable that it would've sold better if it was a full remake, rather than just part of the game. It's likely to still sell well, but a full remake would've sold even better, guaranteed. Many people aren't exactly happy about the game being split up...in fact, I'd imagine very few truly are. It may be accepted, but that doesn't mean a full remake still wouldn't be preferable.

I deny that it would've sold better if it was a "full remake." Unless you are saying that a "full remake" would sell better than the first game in the remake series. Then you are probably right. But if you look at FFVIIR in its entirety, I believe the path they have chosen will sell more.

Let's do some basic math to determine which approach would sell more. I will use some estimates provide by the other poster earlier and some pessimistic sales % figures for a hypothetical 3-game series.

FFVIIR 1 - sells 6M copies
FFVIIR 2 - sells 40% of original base so 2.4M copies
FFVIIR 3 - sells 20% of original base so 1.2M copies

A single game would have to sell 9.6M copies to match the series, or 60% more than the sales of the first part. I don't believe that would be the case.

So based on your post, you seem worried about SE and want them to sell as many copies of their games as possible. You can now feel better knowing that not only did they make the best decision to allow creative flexibility, but also allows for them to be most successful financially.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
game freakozoid posted...
People on this board who are trying to be overtly negative are referring to it as episodic. Let's make sure we get the correct terminology here. It really is important. Let's not let the few negative naysayers here be the entire fandom's point of view. Not only is that absolutely stupid but it is devoid of reality.

And lolno at brushing off a few ARPGs because people don't count Pokemon. They don't count is because it is in a league of its own due to the worldwide phenomenon. People aren't loving pokemon because it is turn based. They love it because of the capture creature mechanic and the iconic mons as well as the huge craze the helped sell it. Hell, originally a big part of the craze was the card game itself. You don't get to pick and choose why people don't usually include Pokemon because those reasons are well documented.

Again, even in your skewed numbers you are still putting FFXV's sales at the fourth best of all the Final Fantasies. That means it is literally beating out 9 other turn based entries not counting the MMOs as well as all the turn based spin offs and sequels. One game being able to do all that when it is the only example in its category is huge. I should also point out a problem with your skewing numbers is it is going under the incorrect assumption that the people that bought it for the Xbox or PC would choose not to buy it for PS4 if it is only on that console. It is unfairly deflating those numbers. As we actually see with all FF when they do go onto other platforms they only ever really account for maybe a million or so extra sales. Thus your whole argument is heavily depending on underplaying the sales of the ARPG.

So you've actually failed to not only demonstrate your point but also failed to show how going multiplatform makes that much of a difference when all the evidence on that site points to it really not making a big impact at all in the large scheme of things.

Skyrim and Fallout and Diablo are LESS similar to FFXV than Pokemon is to FF1-10.
Diablo sells because of multiplayer.
Skyrim/Fallout sell because they're completely open ended and real RPG's, where you get to create your own character and choose your own story.
FF ARPG's are none of those things and FF7R won't be either, so there's no particular reason to think fans of Diablo/TES/Fallout will be interested.
And in fact, turn based is a big part of what sells Pokemon. If it wasn't, then the sales of Pokemon spin offs would compete with the main games, but in reality, they're not even close.

You're just being willfully ignorant at this point.
1-6 go out the window because they were crippled by their platform. SNES sold 50 million, compared to 100 million for PS4. FF6 sold over 3 million on SNES. If you extrapolate those sales out to a 100 million console, then it sells over 6 million - more than XV could muster on a single console.
Comparing to 1-6 at all is disingenuous because the whole industry has gotten exponentially bigger since those days.
MMO's are also irrelevant to the conversation because their model isn't based on retail sales to begin with, and they don't release those numbers.

If you want to claim everyone would just buy it on Playstation if they weren't multiplatform, you're going to need some evidence. Going multiplatform is something that significantly increases the sale of ANY series, for obvious reasons. Most people don't own several game consoles (particularly the trio of Playstation/Xbox/PC which have huge overlap in libraries and capabilities) and very few people would buy a system just for Final Fantasy - especially now a days.

And I just gave you all the exact sales figures, so stop lying. XIII sold 2 million on 360 and almost a million on PC - that's a lot more than "a million or so extra sales". Same for XV, it created at least 3 million more sales.

spikethedevil posted...
Didn't IGN call it episodic which is what started this whole mess?

It really doesn't matter what the hell they call it. People know the content of the original game is being split across multiple products. They're not going to like that no matter what term you wanna use to refer to it.

alm0stk00l posted...


A single game would have to sell 9.6M copies to match the series, or 60% more than the sales of the first part. I don't believe that would be the case.

I think it could easily do that, if it were multiplatform.

Especially if they weren't overly concerned about graphics, and a Switch version was possible. That would help sales a ton, particularly in Japan.
bloop
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: blitz_0623

blitz_0623
4 days ago#73
anime02 posted...
uh no? people can discuss anything they want to. it may not add anything for you but you dont have to read it. and there is a difference between people using examples to prove a point and people stating nothing but opinion. the both sides are bad argument is just bulls***.
Nope, both sides are bad. I don't care if you want to be biased and say one side is using examples to prove a point while the other just complains and states their opinion. At the end of the day both sides will never agree. I know - I don't have to read and you all can discuss anything you want. My point is I'd rather discuss the game than stupid semantics. Which is why I will concede Malak's point below

MalakTawus posted...
Sorry dude but that's being very naive considering that even blind people can see that in places like this the usual complainers have used pretty much any possible excuse to talk s*** about this, including completely fake as hell rumors (hae you people already forgotten the "Dan Tsukasa's BS"? Just to mention one of the more popular,lol).....so yeah, nope.

Also there is nothing wrong in calling this "Remake" since anyone can take a dictionary and see in an instant that the definition for "remake" is actually very broad and this reimagining is 100% included in that. People that whine like crazy is because they WANT to whine, so nothing would have changed anyway.
Fair point, I suppose the topics will just be changed to "lol this is just a piece of VII in disguise as a different game"

User Info: MalakTawus

MalakTawus
4 days ago#74
blitz_0623 posted...
Fair point, I suppose the topics will just be changed to "lol this is just a piece of VII in disguise as a different game"
Yeah, pretty much,lol
"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."

User Info: Brocknoth

Brocknoth
3 days ago#75
dudeitscool posted... and how do you know this?

Because it's common sense? It's not like Square has filled in the gaps for us or anything. They've just continually said "please be excited!" over and over again.

ChipNoir posted...
Prove it.

Prove what? There's nothing to prove it's all straight logic. You can't take a 4-6 hour segment and somehow magically make it 40 hours without some serious padding. There isn't enough story content in Midgar at the start of the game to cover 40 hours. I mean if you tried REALLY hard you could stretch it to 15-20 hours for the main story but 30-40? Keep dreaming.
"You don't scare me. I play Touhou."
~ http://www.backloggery.com/brocknoth ~
(edited 3 days ago)
Brocknoth posted...
Because it's common sense? It's not like Square has filled in the gaps for us or anything. They've just continually said "please be excited!" over and over again.

Prove what? There's nothing to prove it's all straight logic. You can't take a 4-6 hour segment and somehow magically make it 40 hours without some serious padding. There isn't enough story content in Midgar at the start of the game to cover 40 hours. I mean if you tried REALLY hard you could stretch it to 15-20 hours for the main story but 30-40? Keep dreaming.
I suspect it'll be 20 or so hours myself just pure story content because I'm a pessimist and am basically assuming ~1 hour. 1 hour 30 min for each chapter.
But your logic is actually literally fallacious. "I can't see how they could do it" =/= "It isn't possible to do"

If I sat down for a few hours and really combed through the script, the game, etc. I probably could find a way to make it longer. The fact that there is an entire world's worth of a city to be explored that could easily be relevant plot material to this Midgar-Shinra arc alone... And that we know this is being conceptualized as its own full narrative on top of it. It inspires a s*** ton of ideas right off the bat. Some would actually be necessary to round out the plot and make it feel like it has a real beginning middle and end, and that the "what happens next" won't necessarily feel like a big imminent cliffhanger.

Hell, just looking at the amount of detail that we know was cut from the original, lost during production, done inadequately, part of the overall compilation from interviews, published things etc. I can easily see them turning Midgar into a full blown story.
I actually suspect they mostly just lengthened and elaborated on the current story beats with some side plots thrown in, some later material brought in earlier to help build up the next part for good measure, but they probably could have made a 40+ hour story about Midgar alone.
If they had done that, "FF7: Remake; Part 1/Midgar" would have been a more fitting title, but just calling it Remake with an implied part 2 is fine if this is the approach they took, and I suspect they did.

But ofc if you're categorizing all things you aren't interested in, dislike or that aren't 100% related to defeating Sephiroth and stopping Meteor as entirely filler/padding, that doesn't matter.
(edited 3 days ago)

User Info: Tribal9999

Tribal9999
3 days ago#77

Brocknoth posted...
Because it's common sense? It's not like Square has filled in the gaps for us or anything. They've just continually said "please be excited!" over and over again.

Prove what? There's nothing to prove it's all straight logic. You can't take a 4-6 hour segment and somehow magically make it 40 hours without some serious padding. There isn't enough story content in Midgar at the start of the game to cover 40 hours. I mean if you tried REALLY hard you could stretch it to 15-20 hours for the main story but 30-40? Keep dreaming.

"Padding" is a completely arbitrary and subjective characterization that you'll assign any new narrative elements in FFVII-R with. You've already drew your conclusion on the game, and you'll generalize any new elements within the story to buttress your predetermination. Because the game does not adhere to what you thought it should be and is simply, different.

Considering the creators have released two documentary style videos outlining how they decided to utilize the multi-game adaption structure to fill in literal narrative gaps that exist in the OG, you're not just wrong. You're aggressively wrong. For one, you don't know the game's ability to tell it's Midgar story because you haven't directly experienced, played or even witnessed the game. And even if you did, I'm not certain you would admit if it was successful, or even try to evaluate the game on its own terms because you don't think it should exist.

That's not logical at all. In fact, your hasty generalization is the exact opposite of logic. It's emotional, and based in the obvious antipathy you have for the creators and company publishing the game.
The_Undying_84 posted...
Skyrim and Fallout and Diablo are LESS similar to FFXV than Pokemon is to FF1-10.
Diablo sells because of multiplayer.
Skyrim/Fallout sell because they're completely open ended and real RPG's, where you get to create your own character and choose your own story.
FF ARPG's are none of those things and FF7R won't be either, so there's no particular reason to think fans of Diablo/TES/Fallout will be interested.
And in fact, turn based is a big part of what sells Pokemon. If it wasn't, then the sales of Pokemon spin offs would compete with the main games, but in reality, they're not even close.

You're just being willfully ignorant at this point.
1-6 go out the window because they were crippled by their platform. SNES sold 50 million, compared to 100 million for PS4. FF6 sold over 3 million on SNES. If you extrapolate those sales out to a 100 million console, then it sells over 6 million - more than XV could muster on a single console.
Comparing to 1-6 at all is disingenuous because the whole industry has gotten exponentially bigger since those days.
MMO's are also irrelevant to the conversation because their model isn't based on retail sales to begin with, and they don't release those numbers.

If you want to claim everyone would just buy it on Playstation if they weren't multiplatform, you're going to need some evidence. Going multiplatform is something that significantly increases the sale of ANY series, for obvious reasons. Most people don't own several game consoles (particularly the trio of Playstation/Xbox/PC which have huge overlap in libraries and capabilities) and very few people would buy a system just for Final Fantasy - especially now a days.

And I just gave you all the exact sales figures, so stop lying. XIII sold 2 million on 360 and almost a million on PC - that's a lot more than "a million or so extra sales". Same for XV, it created at least 3 million more sales.


I like how you can say, "YEAHSSSZS THESE GAMES SELLLS LIKE THIS SO IT DON 'T COUNT BECAUSE IT DESTROYZ MY POINTZZ." Yes it is that apparent. You realize you lost the argument of ARPG and Turn based and so now you are trying to move the goal posts. Sorry buddy it didn't work.

And lol at spin off pokemon games not selling as well if they aren't turned based. I mean, you do realize that most of the spin off ones are also turn based or very cheap simple games right? Them being spin offs is what makes them not sell as much. That point was disingenous to the extreme and you know it which makes this whole thing sad that you even tried to raise it.

Just so you know, when FFXV released the PS4 had not sold 100 million consoles. At the time of release it was actually just a bit over what SNES was at. Since majority of sales happen at release there goes that argument. I mean, comparing to total console sales has always been an absolutely pathetically terrible argument that has never had any basis in reality but you know, I get that is all you have so that is what you will pretend matters. I mean, the fact that your argument hinges on FFXV sales being continually proportional to PS4 sales when we have seen that isn't the case just shows how much your argument failed.

And to your last point. SMH. I'm going to ask that you work on your reading comprehension because it failed you hardcore. My point was that you can't compare multiplatform BECAUSE there is overlap between people who own more than one platform. That's reality whether you like it or not. In fact, many times the overlap ends up being quite large thanks to exclusives (which especially last gen was a big deal).

https://tinyurl.com/uzu7wnz
https://tinyurl.com/vwyc747

There are tons of reports out there showing that over half of households own more than one dedicated consoles and that number in continually rising. As we can see from this your argument is now totally 100% bunk. Maybe try again?

Brocknoth posted... Prove what? There's nothing to prove it's all straight logic. You can't take a 4-6 hour segment and somehow magically make it 40 hours without some serious padding. There isn't enough story content in Midgar at the start of the game to cover 40 hours. I mean if you tried REALLY hard you could stretch it to 15-20 hours for the main story but 30-40? Keep dreaming.

Dude. We get it. You have absolutely failed to have any imagination at all. That doesn't mean that other people have those same shortcomings.
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: _Emi_

_Emi_
2 days ago#79
There's a lot to midgar that never got explored in the original that now will be.

User Info: Brocknoth

Brocknoth
2 days ago#80
game freakozoid posted...
Dude. We get it. You have absolutely failed to have any imagination at all. That doesn't mean that other people have those same shortcomings.

Mkay let's play hard ball. Take the first 4-6 hours of FF6 and make into a 30-40 hour game WITHOUT padding. Go.

Sacred_Penance posted...
the fact that there is an entire world's worth of a city

And here is where you guys keep tripping yourselves up. "Midgar is a metropolis. It's HUGE! There's so much they could do!" To what end though? Midgar, despite it's size, is a piece of a much bigger pie. If they dump ALL their exposition here they won't have anything left to tie in the rest. And by the looks of it they're dumping major plot points here in Midgar to help push the whole "C-loud vs Seph" dynamic.

Never mind the fact that we have the area listing and it's still ALL the same areas, minus one or two bits they added to the end game, we went to in the original so your size arguement has already fallen flat on it's face. "but the areas are BIGGER!" uh huh, but are they bigger in a meaningful way or are they just bigger to stall for time? Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Tribal9999 posted...
snip

Yes, yes, of course I'm just a "hater" who doesn't know what he's talking about because I'm not blinded by hype and can see through Square's over-hyped PR, and oh of course the ever classic "have you played the game?" You guys blame me for being a broken record when you're just as bad.

The question you should be asking yourself is the "new" content worth chopping a story into parts over or are they just trying to cash in on folk who see the words "FF7 Remake" and go bonkers? The leaks, the constant reassurance, Square's current 10-12 odd year history of "failure" with the mainline series. It paints a pretty bad picture overall. Guess we'll find out in 2 weeks though. Hell I'm surprised the game hasn't leaked yet. Suppose you can thank the pandemic for that.

EDIT - I stand corrected it HAS leaked. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/168653-final-fantasy-vii-remake/78512172?page=1#14
"You don't scare me. I play Touhou."
~ http://www.backloggery.com/brocknoth ~
(edited 2 days ago)
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  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?
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