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  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?
The_Undying_84 posted...
It does not matter what they're designed as or whether they want to call them full games. People already think of them as episodes, and nothing will change that.

FFXIII's divisiveness was not fully established until after it came out, and this game is more divise pre-release than XIII was pre-release.

The original FF7, and 8 and 10, sold more than 15 did, despite the sales of PS1/PS2 being less than that of PS4+Xbone+PC. And FF15 is the best selling ARPG they've made.
The only reason to say turn based FF games would sell less is the erroneous belief that there is less demand for it than there used to be, but in fact, every turn based series that stayed turn based actually sells BETTER today (with the exception of Pokemon, because its peak was just impossible to sustain, and its still the biggest cash cow RPG series out there by a long shot).
And even if one is delusional enough to believe ARPG's which are nothing like their games are a valid comparison, there are still only a few that ever sold better than FF7. Just Bethesda stuff, Diablo 3, and Witcher 3. Games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect or Kingdom Hearts never sold better than top turn based series.
So really there was never any reason to think ARPG's sell better than turn based. It was a few exceptions, no more comparable to what FF ARPG's have done than Pokemon is to FF turn based games (less comparable, in fact).

The only reason I estimate FF7R will sell that much is because I'm assuming it will not remain Playstation exclusive - the same reason XIII and XV were able to come close to FF7-10's sales. On Playstation alone, XIII and XV only sold 5/6 million a piece, and if 7R stays PS4 exclusive, it won't go much higher than that either (I'd say 7 million is the cap).

"Some people consider them that". Let's not pretend that is even the majority or that most even are really that bothered. However it does matter as reality matters. These are full games and not episodes. This game's format and story is also much more known than FFXIII not to mention that Square learned with FFXIII the issues of a completely linear game and they already gone on record that they aren't doing that with this. Your comparison falls apart there.

Your sales argument actually betrays you. They've released one action RPG game and it already outsold all but three of the turn based ones. Hell, especially when you consider all the issues with FFXV that is a pretty big deathknell to turn based.

And most turn based games don't sell nearly as well as a lot of the action RPG games. In your argument you literally went, "Look at how much better one of the best selling turn based games sold than these action RPGs, except the ones that I don't want to count in this example because it ruins my point." You defeated your point in your own example.

And most of those series sell the vast majority on PS4. Sure they sell a few million on other consoles but even FF7/6/10 numbers you are using right now are numbers from multiple releases across different consoles including some on non Sony consoles so dinging XIII and XV for that is truly dishonest.

User Info: Evan_Forever

Evan_Forever
1 week ago#52
game freakozoid posted...
Because most people are fine with it. Square Enix has very well documented that this is part 1 and not the entirety of the game. They have said so since literally 2015. Most people have come to terms with it. You get a few people who are so in their head that they can't see the forest for the trees but that's not really on Square at this point.

Gets me every time
game freakozoid posted...
"Some people consider them that". Let's not pretend that is even the majority or that most even are really that bothered. However it does matter as reality matters. These are full games and not episodes. This game's format and story is also much more known than FFXIII not to mention that Square learned with FFXIII the issues of a completely linear game and they already gone on record that they aren't doing that with this. Your comparison falls apart there.

Your sales argument actually betrays you. They've released one action RPG game and it already outsold all but three of the turn based ones. Hell, especially when you consider all the issues with FFXV that is a pretty big deathknell to turn based.

And most turn based games don't sell nearly as well as a lot of the action RPG games. In your argument you literally went, "Look at how much better one of the best selling turn based games sold than these action RPGs, except the ones that I don't want to count in this example because it ruins my point." You defeated your point in your own example.

And most of those series sell the vast majority on PS4. Sure they sell a few million on other consoles but even FF7/6/10 numbers you are using right now are numbers from multiple releases across different consoles including some on non Sony consoles so dinging XIII and XV for that is truly dishonest.

Square Enix doesn't learn from mistakes, they just swing wildly in a different direction without understand the actual point behind the critiques. They responded to complaints of XIII's linearity by making XV wide open and empty. They will overreact to criticisms of XV in this.
People are widely referring to the game as episodic, you can't change that perception and neither can Squenix. IT IS episodic. A ton of people just don't care how much it expands content, they want everything the original had, and they're not gonna buy the game(s) until they can get that.

You are brushing off the significance of the console issue. Every game before 13 (saving for 11) was exclusive.
If 13 and 15 had been Playstation exclusive, they would be among the worst selling games since 7 (and 1-6 only sold worse because consoles sales were MUCH worse back then, SNES sold under 50 million units).

"Pokemon doesn't count" is what people say all the time when it's pointed out that that is WAY more successful than any ARPG, so it seems perfectly fair for me to write off a few ARPG's, ARPG's which are less like FFXV than FF1-10 are like Pokemon.
And Dragon Quest sells better than the majority of ARPG's too, but this is besides the point.
For FF, what has worked best is turn based and there is no reason to believe that has changed.

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy

FF7 sold 10 million on PS1 alone.
FF8 sold 8.1 million on PS1.
FF9 sold 5.5 million on PS1.
FF10 sold 8 million on PS2.
FF12 sold 6.1 million on PS2.
FF13 sold 6 million on PS3.
FF15 it just says 7.7 for PS4/Xbone combined, but assuming it's the same as the ratio of console sales (108-50), it would be 5.2 million on PS4 to 2.5 on Xbone. XIII sold almost 2 million on 360 too, so that seems about right, certainly the playstation sales of 15 would be no higher than 6 million.

And BTW the total platform sales are:
PS1: 102 million
PS2: 155 million
PS3: 87 million
PS4: 108 million

So yeah, going more action didn't improve sales at all. They're worse than all than maybe 9. The only thing that made XV's (or XIII's) sales remotely competitive with 7, 8, or 10 was being multiplatform, something they could and obviously should do with any new turn based game too.
bloop
(edited 1 week ago)
Just remember; they are doing multiple episodes because there was too much content to make it one release, and they are also adding a ton of new content...
"The black wind howls. One among you will shortly perish"
Magus
It all depends on how well the game sells. If it sells well enough they will surely have the next one out by the end of next year.
All the ladies love Holden Mcgroin.

User Info: OverlordDeath

OverlordDeath
1 week ago#56
BlackWizardMagus posted...
Just remember; they are doing multiple episodes because there was too much content to make it one release, and they are also adding a ton of new content...
So they say, and some of the added content is divisive and unnecessary, even if it winds up being good.

It's undeniable that it would've sold better if it was a full remake, rather than just part of the game. It's likely to still sell well, but a full remake would've sold even better, guaranteed. Many people aren't exactly happy about the game being split up...in fact, I'd imagine very few truly are. It may be accepted, but that doesn't mean a full remake still wouldn't be preferable.

Basically, the main issue is that this is a remake, meaning it has a base story to work off on which most people know. It's not a new game, like .hack/Xenosaga/Mass Effect/other games people have cited as examples. It may have new additions and stuff, but at its base it's probably still going to be quite familiar. They're taking something that was originally only a few hours, and making it at least 10x longer, somewhat unnecessarily. If you really see no issues with how that can be done and made enjoyable, then you're blind. It is incredibly easy for it to be done poorly.
OverlordDeath posted...

So they say, and some of the added content is divisive and unnecessary, even if it winds up being good.

It's undeniable that it would've sold better if it was a full remake, rather than just part of the game. It's likely to still sell well, but a full remake would've sold even better, guaranteed. Many people aren't exactly happy about the game being split up...in fact, I'd imagine very few truly are. It may be accepted, but that doesn't mean a full remake still wouldn't be preferable.

Basically, the main issue is that this is a remake, meaning it has a base story to work off on which most people know. It's not a new game, like .hack/Xenosaga/Mass Effect/other games people have cited as examples. It may have new additions and stuff, but at its base it's probably still going to be quite familiar. They're taking something that was originally only a few hours, and making it at least 10x longer, somewhat unnecessarily. If you really see no issues with how that can be done and made enjoyable, then you're blind. It is incredibly easy for it to be done poorly.


I was apparently too subtle. I was making a jab at the apparent contradiction; on the one hand, they tell us it "must" be multiple entries because there is simply too much stuff to fit on one or even two disks...but then at the same time, they are adding in tons and tons of content. Well, geniuses, if you didn't add in tons and tons of new junk, you wouldn't need to be doing multiple releases, or maybe 2 at most! Yeah, I completely agree that a faithful remake with good graphics and voice acting, a cleaned up script/translation, and more balanced combat (the same system, just tweaking it to be less of a cakewalk), would sell absolute gangbusters. I predict precipitous drops in sales of successive parts of this remake, and that in the end, it will make money, but they will say it earned less than their expectations (because they always blow too much money on fancy graphics so their actual profits are slim).
"The black wind howls. One among you will shortly perish"
Magus
The_Undying_84 posted...
Square Enix doesn't learn from mistakes, they just swing wildly in a different direction without understand the actual point behind the critiques. They responded to complaints of XIII's linearity by making XV wide open and empty. They will overreact to criticisms of XV in this.
People are widely referring to the game as episodic, you can't change that perception and neither can Squenix. IT IS episodic. A ton of people just don't care how much it expands content, they want everything the original had, and they're not gonna buy the game(s) until they can get that.

You are brushing off the significance of the console issue. Every game before 13 (saving for 11) was exclusive.
If 13 and 15 had been Playstation exclusive, they would be among the worst selling games since 7 (and 1-6 only sold worse because consoles sales were MUCH worse back then, SNES sold under 50 million units).

"Pokemon doesn't count" is what people say all the time when it's pointed out that that is WAY more successful than any ARPG, so it seems perfectly fair for me to write off a few ARPG's, ARPG's which are less like FFXV than FF1-10 are like Pokemon.
And Dragon Quest sells better than the majority of ARPG's too, but this is besides the point.
For FF, what has worked best is turn based and there is no reason to believe that has changed.

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy

FF7 sold 10 million on PS1 alone.
FF8 sold 8.1 million on PS1.
FF9 sold 5.5 million on PS1.
FF10 sold 8 million on PS2.
FF12 sold 6.1 million on PS2.
FF13 sold 6 million on PS3.
FF15 it just says 7.7 for PS4/Xbone combined, but assuming it's the same as the ratio of console sales (108-50), it would be 5.2 million on PS4 to 2.5 on Xbone. XIII sold almost 2 million on 360 too, so that seems about right, certainly the playstation sales of 15 would be no higher than 6 million.

And BTW the total platform sales are:
PS1: 102 million
PS2: 155 million
PS3: 87 million
PS4: 108 million

So yeah, going more action didn't improve sales at all. They're worse than all than maybe 9. The only thing that made XV's (or XIII's) sales remotely competitive with 7, 8, or 10 was being multiplatform, something they could and obviously should do with any new turn based game too.

People on this board who are trying to be overtly negative are referring to it as episodic. Let's make sure we get the correct terminology here. It really is important. Let's not let the few negative naysayers here be the entire fandom's point of view. Not only is that absolutely stupid but it is devoid of reality.

And lolno at brushing off a few ARPGs because people don't count Pokemon. They don't count is because it is in a league of its own due to the worldwide phenomenon. People aren't loving pokemon because it is turn based. They love it because of the capture creature mechanic and the iconic mons as well as the huge craze the helped sell it. Hell, originally a big part of the craze was the card game itself. You don't get to pick and choose why people don't usually include Pokemon because those reasons are well documented.

Again, even in your skewed numbers you are still putting FFXV's sales at the fourth best of all the Final Fantasies. That means it is literally beating out 9 other turn based entries not counting the MMOs as well as all the turn based spin offs and sequels. One game being able to do all that when it is the only example in its category is huge. I should also point out a problem with your skewing numbers is it is going under the incorrect assumption that the people that bought it for the Xbox or PC would choose not to buy it for PS4 if it is only on that console. It is unfairly deflating those numbers. As we actually see with all FF when they do go onto other platforms they only ever really account for maybe a million or so extra sales. Thus your whole argument is heavily depending on underplaying the sales of the ARPG.

So you've actually failed to not only demonstrate your point but also failed to show how going multiplatform makes that much of a difference when all the evidence on that site points to it really not making a big impact at all in the large scheme of things.

User Info: amerk

amerk
1 week ago#59
ChipNoir posted...
So you don't like Midgar at all? It has no inherent value for you?
Chip?!

The world's falling apart and Chip returns.

I loved Midgar, but I think the biggest disconnect is going to be where Part 1 ends. I'm going to have that urge to see and explore the world for the first time... But unlike the original I'll have to wait for Part 2.
Multiple full length Final Fantasy games fleshing things out instead of trying to cram it all in one games that is what these episodes are, or rather their intention as things do tend to change .
It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies, and in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer...is no.
(edited 1 week ago)
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  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?
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