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  2. Final Fantasy VII Remake
  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?
The_Undying_84 posted...
Yes, I'm aware of all that. My point was that saying "most people" want or will do any given thing was stupid.

My basis is the declining sales of any similar such endeavor. Episodic game series have consistently declined in sales from game to game, for rather predictable reasons. It's pretty unlikely that they would actually gain sales, and plenty of people will decide they didn't like the first and not buy the others. It happened to Starcraft 2 and Half life, to give some of the more high profile examples. And not that it was really episodic, but since Squenix themselves like to make the comparison, it also happened to the FFXIII series.

Compare that to a normal remake plus FFXVI and FFXVII. RE2make sold more than the original game, so a relatively normal remake can certainly make plenty of money (and I should also point out that it would almost certainly cost a lot less to make). And obviously, a normal, new, full numbered FF game can make plenty of money too. Unless doing FF7R this way leads to much higher sales than even a new FF game would get, which I think is incredibly unlikely, then this way would be less profitable than the way I think they should have done it.
Now obviously, FFXVI and XVII can exist at some point in the future anyways, but they could come out a lot sooner if the resources of FF7R part 2/3 went towards them instead.

There are also many sequels that outsell the original. KH3 is the best selling game in its franchise for example. That depends on the actual games themselves. FFXIII had the issue of being extremely divisive due to its linear gameplay and overly melodramatic story. That affected sales of its sequels tremendously.

Let's also not ignore the fact that unlike going straight ahead and making FF16 and 17, they have already laid a groundwork for the FF7 Remake sequels which will cut down tremendously on development costs. For 16 and 17 they basically would need to start from scratch as they always do. So no just stating sales themselves wouldn't be accurate in this case.

From a resources to sales perspective, unless this game actually tanks which no data at this time is showing to be the case, then this is a much more profitable approach. It's a completely known IP vs. a (relatively by comparison) new one.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: ChipNoir

ChipNoir
1 week ago#42
The_Undying_84 posted...
Yes, I'm aware of all that. My point was that saying "most people" want or will do any given thing was stupid.

My basis is the declining sales of any similar such endeavor. Episodic game series have consistently declined in sales from game to game, for rather predictable reasons. It's pretty unlikely that they would actually gain sales, and plenty of people will decide they didn't like the first and not buy the others. It happened to Starcraft 2 and Half life, to give some of the more high profile examples. And not that it was really episodic, but since Squenix themselves like to make the comparison, it also happened to the FFXIII series.

Compare that to a normal remake plus FFXVI and FFXVII. RE2make sold more than the original game, so a relatively normal remake can certainly make plenty of money (and I should also point out that it would almost certainly cost a lot less to make). And obviously, a normal, new, full numbered FF game can make plenty of money too. Unless doing FF7R this way leads to much higher sales than even a new FF game would get, which I think is incredibly unlikely, then this way would be less profitable than the way I think they should have done it.

Now obviously, FFXVI and XVII can exist at some point in the future anyways, but they could come out a lot sooner if the resources of FF7R part 2/3 went towards them instead.

23.2k, so, less than 1% of what any FF game would hope to sell. IE nothing more than self selecting anecdotal evidence.

And of f***ing course reddit is mostly positive. Reddit is designed to crush any dissenting opinions. It's a garbage format for a forum.

About 2.5% of FFXV's projected sales per unit. You choose odd times to rely on hyperbole when you portray yourself as so anal compulsive and rigid usually.

I promise you there are hundreds of other communities that also feel the same. The game hits trends on twitters with positivity every time a new trailer shows up.

You are the minority.

game freakozoid posted...
There are also many sequels that outsell the original. KH3 is the best selling game in its franchise for example. That depends on the actual games themselves. FFXIII had the issue of being extremely divisive due to its linear gameplay and overly melodramatic story. That affected sales of its sequels tremendously.

Let's also not ignore the fact that unlike going straight ahead and making FF16 and 17, they have already laid a groundwork for the FF7 Remake sequels which will cut down tremendously on development costs. For 16 and 17 they basically would need to start from scratch as they always do. So no just stating sales themselves wouldn't be accurate in this case.

From a resources to sales perspective, unless this game actually tanks which no data at this time is showing to be the case, then this is a much more profitable approach. It's a completely known IP vs. a (relatively by comparison) new one.

This won't have "sequels" though, it will have extra episodes. Those do not have much history of outselling the first. And this isn't exactly lacking in divisiveness, you know.

It remains to be seen whether they've actually done that. They've said they don't know what part 2 will actually be, so signs don't really point towards it coming out any faster than a brand new game would.

And you know, FF games don't HAVE TO be completely different every time. They didn't used to be.
One of the main advantages here would be that a proper FF7 remake would serve as proof of concept that they can still make money with turn based games - more in fact that they can make with ARPG's. Then FF16 and 17 could have had rather similar game play, reducing costs and development time (and turn based is inherently cheaper to boot).

My expectation is:
FF7R as is will sell 8-12 million, and each subsequent part will decline in sales by 2-3 million. Might change due to generation transition, which could be good or bad for it depending on the sales of the next gen consoles, most likely bad because the second part would come out mid-to early in their lifespan before the console sales are anywhere close to current gen numbers.

While, doing it my way, the remake would sell just as much, and then 16 and 17 would proceed to sell similarly, and they would cost less to make and come out faster too. Generational transition wouldn't affect this plan as badly because it's not a continuous game/story and is thus less dependent on getting the same consumers to follow it.

The big problem with this episodic model is a lot of people are just saying "I'll wait til it's all done", but there's good odds they just lose interest by then. And they may also be expecting the full game to cost just 60 dollars (certainly they'd expect it to be less than buying them all when they were new), which means, even if sales numbers wind up as good or better as 3 separate games, they won't actually be making as much money as 3 separate games.
bloop
ChipNoir posted...
About 2.5% of FFXV's projected sales per unit. You choose odd times to rely on hyperbole when you portray yourself as so anal compulsive and rigid usually.

I promise you there are hundreds of other communities that also feel the same. The game hits trends on twitters with positivity every time a new trailer shows up.

You are the minority.

You missed a decimal point. 23,200/8,900,000x100=0.26%

You have no way of telling how much crossover there is between these supposed communities. Likely quite a lot.

As I alluded to previously- I'm the minority of what?
Gamers? No, the majority of gamers aren't interested in FF7.
FF fans? How do you even measure how many of those there are?
bloop
(edited 1 week ago)
What this will have is straight up sequels. It isn't episodes. No matter how much you say so doesn't make it true. These are designed as full games, not little episodes. For example Nomura for a long time knew where the KH series was going. Even with KH3 he knew what would happen beyond it. That doesn't mean those games are all of a sudden episodes. They are full games.

The divisiveness of this is not anywhere near what we had with FFXIII. It would be disingenuous at best to even imply that. This has a small group of haters but is overall getting large amounts of praise.

Just because they don't know where part 2 ends doesn't mean it won't be quicker. They still have a lot of groundwork laid down. Hell, Square themselves have even stated they imagine the development to be more efficient than part 1 was because of the groundwork.

FF games have always been different every time. Sure they may have ATB but even parts of that would change. The characters, setting, graphics, story, gameplay, systems in the game always changed game to game. That isn't happening here.

You have no basis that a turn based game would sell more though. Your whole supposition is without evidence. Instead Square has seen trends with gaming and they've seen that it goes more towards action. Hence why they are going more that way.

So basically FF7R is going to be one of the best selling FF games there is by your own estimation and the sequels will also be up there only losing to a few. All of that for much simpler development. By your own estimations this is the better route. You really didn't think it through.

Generational transition of course would effect just as much. Let's not forget that part 2 at least will be on current gen consoles and that next gen will both offer backwards compatibility.

But those people are in the extreme minority. Most people were upset that the game was coming out just one month later. You now expect those people to wait half a decade or more? That makes no sense. And again, because of so much less in development costs then the sales of the subsequent games will be much more beneficial than if they were a new game that starts from scratch. No matter how you slice it, a FF16 will cost more to develop and require more work than FF7 part 2 unless they really go backwards with the technology which isn't like Square.

User Info: ChipNoir

ChipNoir
1 week ago#46
The_Undying_84 posted...
You missed a decimal point. 23,200/8,900,000x100=0.26%

You have no way of telling how much crossover there is between these supposed communities. Likely quite a lot.

As I alluded to previously- I'm the minority of what?
Gamers? No, the majority of gamers aren't interested in FF7.
FF fans? How do you even measure how many of those there are?


...Bite me.
game freakozoid posted...
What this will have is straight up sequels. It isn't episodes. No matter how much you say so doesn't make it true. These are designed as full games, not little episodes. For example Nomura for a long time knew where the KH series was going. Even with KH3 he knew what would happen beyond it. That doesn't mean those games are all of a sudden episodes. They are full games.

The divisiveness of this is not anywhere near what we had with FFXIII. It would be disingenuous at best to even imply that. This has a small group of haters but is overall getting large amounts of praise.

Just because they don't know where part 2 ends doesn't mean it won't be quicker. They still have a lot of groundwork laid down. Hell, Square themselves have even stated they imagine the development to be more efficient than part 1 was because of the groundwork.

FF games have always been different every time. Sure they may have ATB but even parts of that would change. The characters, setting, graphics, story, gameplay, systems in the game always changed game to game. That isn't happening here.

You have no basis that a turn based game would sell more though. Your whole supposition is without evidence. Instead Square has seen trends with gaming and they've seen that it goes more towards action. Hence why they are going more that way.

So basically FF7R is going to be one of the best selling FF games there is by your own estimation and the sequels will also be up there only losing to a few. All of that for much simpler development. By your own estimations this is the better route. You really didn't think it through.

Generational transition of course would effect just as much. Let's not forget that part 2 at least will be on current gen consoles and that next gen will both offer backwards compatibility.

But those people are in the extreme minority. Most people were upset that the game was coming out just one month later. You now expect those people to wait half a decade or more? That makes no sense. And again, because of so much less in development costs then the sales of the subsequent games will be much more beneficial than if they were a new game that starts from scratch. No matter how you slice it, a FF16 will cost more to develop and require more work than FF7 part 2 unless they really go backwards with the technology which isn't like Square.

It does not matter what they're designed as or whether they want to call them full games. People already think of them as episodes, and nothing will change that.

FFXIII's divisiveness was not fully established until after it came out, and this game is more divise pre-release than XIII was pre-release.

The original FF7, and 8 and 10, sold more than 15 did, despite the sales of PS1/PS2 being less than that of PS4+Xbone+PC. And FF15 is the best selling ARPG they've made.
The only reason to say turn based FF games would sell less is the erroneous belief that there is less demand for it than there used to be, but in fact, every turn based series that stayed turn based actually sells BETTER today (with the exception of Pokemon, because its peak was just impossible to sustain, and its still the biggest cash cow RPG series out there by a long shot).
And even if one is delusional enough to believe ARPG's which are nothing like their games are a valid comparison, there are still only a few that ever sold better than FF7. Just Bethesda stuff, Diablo 3, and Witcher 3. Games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect or Kingdom Hearts never sold better than top turn based series.
So really there was never any reason to think ARPG's sell better than turn based. It was a few exceptions, no more comparable to what FF ARPG's have done than Pokemon is to FF turn based games (less comparable, in fact).

The only reason I estimate FF7R will sell that much is because I'm assuming it will not remain Playstation exclusive - the same reason XIII and XV were able to come close to FF7-10's sales. On Playstation alone, XIII and XV only sold 5/6 million a piece, and if 7R stays PS4 exclusive, it won't go much higher than that either (I'd say 7 million is the cap).

ChipNoir posted...
...Bite me.

Kinda sad how much your ego is wrapped up in being a self proclaimed leader of a bunch of fanboys for a random video game..........
bloop
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: JamesBR27

JamesBR27
1 week ago#48
I would love if the timeframe between episodes was the same as in the FF XIII saga.
Like FF VII Remake part 1 - 2020
Part 2 - 2022 - From the moment the team leaves Midgar until the after events of a certain character's death.
Part 3 - 2025 - Everything else until the end of the game, after the scene where 'World Crisis" plays.
PSN: Same as Above. 34 Years of Gaming Life.
(edited 1 week ago)
I'd rather they didn't make the whole game in one and cut parts, even if it sells as well or better than this, because expanding the story and getting to live in it more is actually a positive for me, and I imagine many others.

Notice how I said Imagine though. I'm not going to devise an elaborate hypothesis based on my own general sense of how consumers react to things. There's too much to unpack to make such grand generalizations. Maybe everyone who would buy the Remake in parts would buy the whole + those who won't, but maybe the game doesn't look as good, isn't marketed as well, and is essentially just deemed a 2012 version of the game. Maybe those who wouldn't buy the game in parts are actually a very small minority that has 0 practical impact on sales or revenue and it turns out that they make a similar amount of money at the end of the day, but on the consumers end we get 3 or however many games that tell a more complete story + build a more comprehensive, definitive world.

Can't know for sure.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Rahsiel30

Rahsiel30
1 week ago#50
dont people get bored to discuss this topic already. People jump from one thread to another and just repeat everything they already wrote 100 times.
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  3. Can someone please explain to me the specifics of the "episodes"?
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