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  3. Red XIII not playable.

User Info: The_Sage

The_Sage
2 weeks ago#161
Thebigbroswer posted...
Nice cop out. You didn't even address a single point in my argument.

....it wasn't a cop out. I'm basically arguing the same points with three of you.
Sage of FAQs.

User Info: Thebigbroswer

Thebigbroswer
2 weeks ago#162
omgeleventytwo posted...
You're looking at this from a fans perspective and not a developers perspective. There were a lot of factors in this decision and it's quite distasteful to say they're 'rushing' things when you have the luxury of not knowing all the things they had to weight up to make this decision.

* The characters in the game have growth paths, some that arent entirely clear yet but the biggest being weapon growth and inheritance. These characters grow over the course of the game through your own hands. Then Red XIII is just supposed to come in at the last minute, fully maxed for the end? Why bother working on the others? Thats why they take him out of our hands but they dont take him away.
* There was no room to explain him. He literally doesnt even start his arc until Cosmo Canyon and even then, his arc is over by the time you leave. He's lucky he even made it in at all, he's the most irrelevant mandatory character in the game, he makes no sense, has no purpose, no relationships or friends or rivals and if the party met Bugenhagen any other way, he'd be outright unnecessary. This isnt just about old players with nostalgia, new players will be like "wtf is this talking cheeto mascot? Why is it in my party?" He's a question mark in Part 1 and it adds to the mystery before part 2 either shows that he's actually a really lame kid and doesnt do anything or remake has a chance to fix him with more time and focus. He hasn't been CUT he's been spread out. xD
* It works well with the lore that he's not playable because he doesnt trust humans. He just knows they're the enemy of his captors and a means to getting out of Midgar. It meshes against the games vibe with everyone trusting each other in combat and working together, supporting each other vocally. Red is just looking after himself. He's known them 5 minutes and already doesnt like them on account of them being humans.
* You know the characters dont just have like 2 abilities each and thats it right? They have unique playstyles and mechanic growths through the entire game. It's something that takes years to tune as the game grows, theres a hundred variables and balance values to consider, they cant just s*** them out. They have SO much on their plate for this project and they're trying so hard to not cut anything out. It makes perfect sense to move something to later when it can be done better and in greater depth. The only criticism you can give here is "waaaah but i want him nooooow". And thats not a very strong one. He's not being neglected at all. The game ends where it ends. This is how it has to be for reasons that have been explained ad nauseum. He's going to get his due, what little of it he even has, in the second part. I get it if hes your fave character but mine is Cid, how do you think I feel? Well, i feel fine actually because im not a brat who wants everything now and calls developers lazy for not doing what i want.
* Designing Roche and creating a playstyle for Red would be handled by different people. Contrary to popular belief, Nomura is not the only person working on this game, single handedly performing every task. Roche is in the hands of artists, writers, animators and enemy design. The party falls in to even more groups. The people who couldve done Red as a playable were busy making sure Cloud, Tifa, Barret and Aerith were all balanced, fun and fully fleshed out. You know, the actual main cast for this part of the story. But no, im sure they finished those in a day and sat around for 5 years smoking pot. Lazy bastards. What a rush job!
Come on mate. x_X

*SE said multiple times that they would be expanding the original game with more content, so it's not too hard to believe that they would expand the final dungeon. Even if they didn't, they still have side content. Assuming that the side content is component, that's more than enough time to play as Red XIII.

* Wasn't one of FFVIIR's main selling points it's more developed characters? Love it or hate it there is a lot more story content in this game compared to the original FFVII. They can easily make Red XIII more important by adding more backstory to him, have him find the motorcycle that conveniently spawns to help Cloud escape, etc. When you have to ignore one of the main selling points of a game to make an argument, then you should know that it's a bad argument.

*Barret literally says in the demo that he doesn't trust Cloud. What! One of Red XIII's main character traits is his intelligence. It's common sense that Red XIII would work for the party for a while but not trust them completely. Since he's an animal, he can easily run away if they try anything fishy. Now you're just denying common sense to make your argument.

*Maybe if they didn't waste so much time making the graphics they could prioritize the gameplay. Cloud and Tifa don't even have that specialized of playstyles at all. They both mash buttons 2win. The only significant difference between the two is that Tifa is faster and stronger from what we've seen. They could have gave Cloud something to compete with Tifa damage wise but no. Don't make me laugh with that KeEp ThInGs BaLaNcEd s***. Barrett's slow as balls and can't DPS to save his life. Let's compare that to Tifa who can attack really fast, deal lots of damage, and can move out of the way really fast. Claiming that there's balance in this game is silly. But back on to Red XIII, they could have given Red XIII a variety of playstyles like as an in and out DPSer or a risk and reward high damage DPSer who needs to stay close to deal damage.

Whateven.
Insults do not substitute for an agurement.
Taranza's number 1 supporter for smash.

User Info: Pig143

Pig143
1 week ago#163
So would you rather Red be naked or playable?
Hackers win at games but they still lose at life, i used to hate them but then i realized they have to cheat so now i just feel sorry for them.

User Info: ChipNoir

ChipNoir
1 week ago#164
Thebigbroswer posted...
*SE said multiple times that they would be expanding the original game with more content, so it's not too hard to believe that they would expand the final dungeon. Even if they didn't, they still have side content. Assuming that the side content is component, that's more than enough time to play as Red XIII.

* Wasn't one of FFVIIR's main selling points it's more developed characters? Love it or hate it there is a lot more story content in this game compared to the original FFVII. They can easily make Red XIII more important by adding more backstory to him, have him find the motorcycle that conveniently spawns to help Cloud escape, etc. When you have to ignore one of the main selling points of a game to make an argument, then you should know that it's a bad argument.

*Barret literally says in the demo that he doesn't trust Cloud. What! One of Red XIII's main character traits is his intelligence. It's common sense that Red XIII would work for the party for a while but not trust them completely. Since he's an animal, he can easily run away if they try anything fishy. Now you're just denying common sense to make your argument.

*Maybe if they didn't waste so much time making the graphics they could prioritize the gameplay. Cloud and Tifa don't even have that specialized of playstyles at all. They both mash buttons 2win. The only significant difference between the two is that Tifa is faster and stronger from what we've seen. They could have gave Cloud something to compete with Tifa damage wise but no. Don't make me laugh with that KeEp ThInGs BaLaNcEd s***. Barrett's slow as balls and can't DPS to save his life. Let's compare that to Tifa who can attack really fast, deal lots of damage, and can move out of the way really fast. Claiming that there's balance in this game is silly. But back on to Red XIII, they could have given Red XIII a variety of playstyles like as an in and out DPSer or a risk and reward high damage DPSer who needs to stay close to deal damage.

Whateven.

Maybe because Barret isn't meant for DPS and is actually being built as the party tank and emergency maneuvers characters? He has a built in ATB building skill as his secondary attack, and many of his abilities are meant to buff him out, as well as recoop health to the party.

Meanwhile Tifa is not entirely about being fast, but also about stacking her buffs to do maximum damage AFTER stagger, which is Barret's other main purpose. Of the three characters, Barret has the highest stagger/pressure potential with Overcharge and Stagger Shot.

Maaaaybe stop pretending like you know what you're talking about?

User Info: Thebigbroswer

Thebigbroswer
1 week ago#165
ChipNoir posted...
Maybe because Barret isn't meant for DPS and is actually being built as the party tank and emergency maneuvers characters? He has a built in ATB building skill as his secondary attack, and many of his abilities are meant to buff him out, as well as recoop health to the party.

Meanwhile Tifa is not entirely about being fast, but also about stacking her buffs to do maximum damage AFTER stagger, which is Barret's other main purpose. Of the three characters, Barret has the highest stagger/pressure potential with Overcharge and Stagger Shot.

Maaaaybe stop pretending like you know what you're talking about?
Well sorry for expecting the remake to give Barret the same role he had in the original game.

You would think that a party member built for tanking enemy attacks would have the ability to get the enemy's attention on him and heal without materia. Well guess what, Barret has a terrible magic stat, and in a game where magic healing is superior to healing with items, that's terrible for a defensive tank. I would also like to point out that Cloud has a better magic stat than Barret. So with the right materia, Cloud could heal the party better than Barret, the defensive tank. His buff isn't even that good. He still takes the damage just without the stun.

Hmm. I wonder where you got the bolded from. You can swap character's materia around to quickly stagger enemies, and from what I tested, Cloud's focused stab is a way better stagger move compared to anything Barret has. (Excluding materia attacks.)

Insults do not substitute for an agurement.
Taranza's number 1 supporter for smash.

User Info: Pig143

Pig143
1 week ago#166
Thebigbroswer posted...
Well sorry for expecting the remake to give Barret the same role he had in the original game.
The original game let any character play any role right?
Hackers win at games but they still lose at life, i used to hate them but then i realized they have to cheat so now i just feel sorry for them.

User Info: Thebigbroswer

Thebigbroswer
1 week ago#167
Pig143 posted...
The original game let any character play any role right?
Certain characters just couldn't play a role as well as another character. I meant that Barret was mostly used as a DPS Tank in the original, and now he's a support tank.
Insults do not substitute for an agurement.
Taranza's number 1 supporter for smash.

User Info: Pig143

Pig143
3 days ago#168
Thebigbroswer posted...
Certain characters just couldn't play a role as well as another character.
Not really a factor when all party members have 9999HP and hit for 9999 damage
Hackers win at games but they still lose at life, i used to hate them but then i realized they have to cheat so now i just feel sorry for them.

User Info: Dimalva

Dimalva
3 days ago#169
Thebigbroswer posted...
Cloud's focused stab is a way better stagger move compared to anything Barret has. (Excluding materia attacks.)

Barret with two ATB bars can bring the stagger bar from nearly zero to over 80% with just one Focused Shot, the Scorpion Sentinel made this clear during its third phase when Barret is given free rein to build his ATB and just seize that small pressure window the boss gets after shooting its laser. You can basically skip that phase with it if you follow up with proper damage output. So no, Cloud´s Focused Thrust can´t be better than Barret´s Focused Shot because it is capped at one ATB bar.

As for Red XIII, there are enough examples of canine/quadruped characters in games that could give us an idea of how he´d play, the most obvious one for me would be Amaterasu from Okami, she had beads that formed a magical barrier when you wanted to block, so maybe that´s how Red XIII could use his combs to block too. For the rest, pouncing, biting, tackling, back kicking, gouging and so on...Plus magical abilities of course, since his Limit Breaks where mostly that way.

As a plus, Amaterasu also had urine and explosive wastes...As funny as it would be to see something like that in FFVIIR, l don´t think it would fit Red XIII´s personality or style.
(edited 3 days ago)

User Info: Thebigbroswer

Thebigbroswer
3 days ago#170
Pig143 posted...
Not really a factor when all party members have 9999HP and hit for 9999 damage
But Barret can't be as good as a healer as Cloud. Damage isn't everything.
Insults do not substitute for an agurement.
Taranza's number 1 supporter for smash.
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