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  2. Final Fantasy VII Remake
  3. Best Final Fantasy since FFX?

User Info: GeneratorLeon

GeneratorLeon
3 days ago#111
I think VII through X all excel at different things, and for that reason I have some trouble picking a favorite between them. I do at least believe they are all better than all other mainline FFs before or since though. I understand VI is beloved by people whose first FF wasn't VII, and there are definitely things I liked a lot about it, mostly gameplay-wise, but the characters and plot just didn't do much for me at the time. I do need to give it another shot one day though, and here's hoping for a remake to help facilitate that. XII had uninteresting characters and an uninteresting plot, and while an interesting curiosity at the time, the gambit system ultimately led to the s***fest we got in XIII that basically plays itself. I don't hate XII though and still enjoyed replaying the remaster, because at the end of the day it still feels like a Final Fantasy, unlike XIII where anything resembling Final Fantasy was gone.
XBL: Generator Leon / PSN: Exile_Leon

User Info: BazzaPersonal

BazzaPersonal
3 days ago#112
15 tbh
BREATHE
https://imgur.com/gallery/j0Ef4sK
1Tekkaman posted...
It's dead easy. Better MC (not much of a standard, Tidus being bottom-tier), better supporting cast, sure as heck better romance (Tidus/Yuna is Anakin/Padme bad) more expansive world, graphics aside (not really a valid comparison, they being on different systems) the only area where X really surpasses VIII is battle system. Putting VIII on level with XV is nonsensical in the extreme.
Squall is definitely less likable as an MC than Tidus, by far. And Tidus x Yuna is arguably the best romance ever achieved in RPGs.
As for worlds, VIII's has more exploration, but X's is far better realized and executed. X's world is saturated with verisimilitude, while VIII's is just a series of disjointed (albeit gorgeous) setpieces.

The reason I compare VIII and XV is that they share a lot of strengths and weaknesses:
  • Heavy focus on visuals and cinematic storytelling
  • Gameplay a bit TOO different from its predecessors, for insufficient reasons
  • Plot progression is disjointed and often confusing
Where VIII beats XV is the moment-to-moment gameplay, and where XV beats VIII is the cast of characters.
Currently Playing: Trails of Cold Steel III
(edited 3 days ago)

User Info: 1Tekkaman

1Tekkaman
3 days ago#114
Arvis_Jaggamar posted...
Squall is definitely less likable as an MC than Tidus, by far. And Tidus x Yuna is arguably the best romance ever achieved in RPGs.
As for worlds, VIII's has more exploration, but X's is far better realized and executed. X's world is saturated with verisimilitude, while VIII's is just a series of disjointed (albeit gorgeous) setpieces.

The reason I compare VIII and XV is that they share a lot of strengths and weaknesses:
* Heavy focus on visuals and cinematic storytelling
* Gameplay a bit TOO different from its predecessors, for insufficient reasons
* Plot progression is disjointed and often confusing
Where VIII beats XV is the moment-to-moment gameplay, and where XV beats VIII is the cast of characters.
On Squall versus Tidus, I'll take a pseudo-stoic loner over a whiny dolt, thank you very much. And, Tidus/Yuna arguably the best romance ever achieved in RPGs? Good grief, how on Earth can you say that with a straight face? It's nothing but a badly-written (and badly-voiced) cringe-fest from beginning to end. Off the top of my head, Squall/Rinoa, Zidane/Garnet, Cloud/Tifa, Claude/Rena (Star Ocean 2), and Justin/Feena (Grandia) all utterly destroy Tidus/Yuna, to say nothing of some implied (Prince/Lyon from Suikoden V comes to mind) and/or optional (Yukari Takeba and Naoto Shirogane from Persona, Laura S. Arseid from Trails of Cold Steel) relationships in other games.

Nor is X's world better realized; on the contrary, it's barely developed at all. We see very little of Spira, and what we do see is very confined. Luca, talked up as the second largest city in Spira, is in practice maybe half the size of Deling city, with less of interest. Bevelle may as well not even exist.

Your comparison to XV is threadbare at best. VIII's story is nowhere near as disjointed as XV's (only thing about VIII I found even slightly confusing was time compression, which only comes up very late), and SeeD plus Rinoa work a hell of a lot better than Noctis and his fellow boy-band wannabes.
I swim through a sea of stars. . . .
1Tekkaman posted...
I'll take a pseudo-stoic loner over a whiny dolt, thank you very much
A valid stance, but both Squall's stoicism and Tidus' whiny-ness are highly exaggerated by haters for the purpose of argument. Neither are anywhere near as insufferable as pedantic message board denizens often make them out to be.

1Tekkaman posted...
It's nothing but a badly-written (and badly-voiced) cringe-fest from beginning to end.
You say that, but I emotionally connected more with them than any other RPG couple, to the point where I was a sobbing mess at the end. The end of X is still one of the greatest video game endings of all time.
Your list of comparable couples sincerely made me smirk at times, especially when you mentioned Laura, lol. That's literally not even a romance, so you should consider scaling back the level of emotional hatred you have for X, because you don't sound particularly reasonable here.

1Tekkaman posted...
Nor is X's world better realized; on the contrary, it's barely developed at all. We see very little of Spira, and what we do see is very confined. Luca, talked up as the second largest city in Spira, is in practice maybe half the size of Deling city, with less of interest. Bevelle may as well not even exist.
You're missing the point: it's not about how much you can walk around in. It's about how REAL the world feels. Look up "verisimilitude" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Your response has nothing to do with what I said.

1Tekkaman posted...
VIII's story is nowhere near as disjointed as XV's
It's MORE disjointed in a lot of important ways, especially in how the characters behave and in where a lot of the major plot points and twists come from (namely: literally no-frickin'-where).

1Tekkaman posted...
SeeD plus Rinoa work a hell of a lot better than Noctis and his fellow boy-band wannabes
Maybe. It's close.
Currently Playing: Trails of Cold Steel III

User Info: 1Tekkaman

1Tekkaman
3 days ago#116
A valid stance, but both Squall's stoicism and Tidus' whiny-ness are highly exaggerated by haters for the purpose of argument. Neither are anywhere near as insufferable as pedantic message board denizens often make them out to be.
It took me years to realize just how bad a character Tidus is. But with lines like "But I want everything!" in the freakin' endgame, it's hard to come to any other conclusion.

You say that, but I emotionally connected more with them than any other RPG couple, to the point where I was a sobbing mess at the end. The end of X is still one of the greatest video game endings of all time.
The end of X is IMO one of worst video game endings of all time. MC dying always leaves me with a sense of futility.

Your list of comparable couples sincerely made me smirk at times, especially when you mentioned Laura, lol. That's literally not even a romance, so you should consider scaling back the level of emotional hatred you have for X, because you don't sound particularly reasonable here.
You accuse me (falsely I might add) of emotional hatred, yet make the patently absurd claim that Laura literally isn't even a romance? In terms of being reasonable, this is a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black.

You're missing the point: it's not about how much you can walk around in. It's about how REAL the world feels. Look up "verisimilitude" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Your response has nothing to do with what I said.
How much you can walk around is important for verisimilitude. The confined spaces in X hurt it badly in that regard.

It's MORE disjointed in a lot of important ways, especially in how the characters behave and in where a lot of the major plot points and twists come from (namely: literally no-frickin'-where).
"Literally nowhere" is literally false. Saying VIII's story is more disjointed is literally insupportable.

Maybe. It's close.
Not even remotely. XV is a disaster in pretty much every factor that makes for a good RPG, and that includes characters.
I swim through a sea of stars. . . .
It was XII and then it was 2.0 XIV and beyond.
Smash FP2 wishlist: Crash, Spyro, Dante, Rex/Pyra, Sora, Vaati.
@1Tekkaman You're misinterpreting one line and taking it out of context, and you're missing the point of the ending as well.

My point about Laura is that I've played 3 Cold Steel games now, to completion, and not seen an overtly romantic moment between Rean and Laura yet. Where Tidus x Yuna literally changes the entire world of the game, an optional romance can, by definition, never achieve that level.

Everything else is very much cemented in the realm of opinion (semantics about "literally" aside). I'm down for discussing them in more detail, but I'm not entirely sure you are. We can just leave it here if you like.
Currently Playing: Trails of Cold Steel III
(edited 3 days ago)
Arvis_Jaggamar posted...
And Tidus x Yuna is arguably the best romance ever achieved in RPGs.
Better than these?

Fei x Elly(Xenogears)
Hiro x Lucia(Lunar 2)
Joshua x Estelle(Trails in the Sky)
Oswald x Gwendolyn(Odin Sphere)
Joshua x Adele(Vandal Hearts 2)

No way in hell.
"Hey, lady, I put the kiddies to sleep. Permanently." - Yuri Hyuga - Shadow Hearts
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: Finis-XII

Finis-XII
2 days ago#120
Arvis_Jaggamar posted...
And Tidus x Yuna is arguably the best romance ever achieved in RPGs.
Lmao, good one.

And on the subject of ToCS, Emma is clearly the Best Girl for Rean.
"This close, I can hear your heart beating. Thump, thump...that's how you sound... <3" - Chie
https://m.imgur.com/gfiAZKK
(edited 2 days ago)
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