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  3. Ok, one thing that is bugging me about the battle system now....

User Info: cjtencounter

cjtencounter
1 month ago#1
What do you think of this thread? - Results (132 votes)
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After countless views of the leaked demo, I have been REALLY paying close attention to the commands and how the player is playing, etc. Scrutinizing it with constant pauses, slow-motion, whatever....

So yeah, something kinda bugs me now which I wish didn't but I can understand now why some were complaining about the "auto" gameplay.

Even in classic mode, it'll NEVER feel like the original if say, you're on Cloud and the other character (let's say Barret, for now) is killing off that enemy you cannot reach with Cloud. I was hoping that you - as the player - would be forced to select Barret and have him take down that enemy. Basically, the other characters should not - absolutely NOT - be killing off enemies for you. The player should always have full control of that.

And that is exactly what I have been seeing in the videos. Basically, what it should be is that the other characters should hold back in some way and just focus on blocking until you have them make a move.
Square must have thought it'd look inappropriate having the gameplay just have ONE character attacking at a time, but, at this point it does seem like the gameplay will be playing itself and making it too easy. Not to mention, underwhelming...who wants the computer to win the fights for you? And worse, can you imagine the disappointment if the computer AI takes the final hit of the boss fight. It'll feel like you had nothing to do with the win.

I don't know, man. This is just another thing that I cannot help but be somewhat aggravated by. I just don't see how the gameplay can be completely satisfying like this.
There should seriously be a HARD mode where you have 100% control of the entire party and no action takes place unless you say so.
TOP 5 consoles: 1. PS1 | 2. PS2 | 3. NES | 4. Genesis | 5. PS3

User Info: Nathanmg

Nathanmg
1 month ago#2
If the game is balanced around them doing this though it shouldn't be too easy.

Whether the balance is right or not is yet to be seen.

cjtencounter posted...
And worse, can you imagine the disappointment if the computer AI takes the final hit of the boss fight. It'll feel like you had nothing to do with the win.

I don't get this logic, killing blows aren't the most important part by a long shot, if none of what you do during the fight feels like it contributes to the kill then that suggests you wouldn't be enjoying any of the fight except the death animation at the end.

twitch.tv/nathanmg

User Info: blitz_0623

blitz_0623
1 month ago#3
Why is this surprising? They have AI that automatically means you won't get 100% kills. Granted most of their damage will just be chip damage but they will end up finishing off low health enemies. What can be annoying here is if there's like a poach mechanic and you need to use it on a low health enemy.

Also I'm assuming you've never played a Tales of game

User Info: cjtencounter

cjtencounter
1 month ago#4
Nathanmg posted...
If the game is balanced around them doing this though it shouldn't be too easy.

Whether the balance is right or not is yet to be seen.

I don't get this logic, killing blows aren't the most important part by a long shot, if none of what you do during the fight feels like it contributes to the kill then that suggests you wouldn't be enjoying any of the fight except the death animation at the end.

Yeah, for sure balance is key. I'm still holding out for the best but I just don't want it to end up like FFXII or even worse, FFXV...where I just feel the gameplay is just so randomly chaotic and my entire party is just hacking away. It just never felt like good controlled gameplay. The original FF's always made you feel like when you didn't win a fight, it was clearly your own fault for making bad decisions.

Yeah, the point about the boss was a little dramatic. It's not like I would necessarily want to have the final takedown of the battle, but more that I don't want it to end so unexpectedly realizing that it had just been won by my party member on auto-AI. This is just one of those compulsive things for me. If I don't have full control of the gameplay, it just doesn't feel like I'm completely playing it. It frustrates me. I find it just awkward that I'm playing with AI controlled bots that are taking damage off enemies for me. Now, if this was multiplayer and your buddies were controlling that'd be a whole different story.
TOP 5 consoles: 1. PS1 | 2. PS2 | 3. NES | 4. Genesis | 5. PS3

User Info: Dunal

Dunal
1 month ago#5
As you get further into the game, I'd imagine that this will happen a lot less often.

These trash mobs early on don't really require ATB skills/magic to kill quickly, so basic attacks (which are the only ones used by the AI) are sufficient to clear them out. However, later on as the game gets progressively more difficult and complex, I doubt you'll be able to kill off enemies quickly using just these basic attacks which means you'll need to command your party to deal most of your damage, including foes that require specific members to take down.

User Info: cjtencounter

cjtencounter
1 month ago#6
blitz_0623 posted...
Why is this surprising? They have AI that automatically means you won't get 100% kills. Granted most of their damage will just be chip damage but they will end up finishing off low health enemies. What can be annoying here is if there's like a poach mechanic and you need to use it on a low health enemy.

Also I'm assuming you've never played a Tales of game

No, haven't played those games.

Ughh, on paper I love how everything looked in battle as I'm watching...but I feel when I'll be playing this won't be the kind of game I want to play. It's not what I had in mind with it.
Hmmm, I guess it really depends on how much damage the party will actually help you out with.
TOP 5 consoles: 1. PS1 | 2. PS2 | 3. NES | 4. Genesis | 5. PS3

User Info: Dunal

Dunal
1 month ago#7
cjtencounter posted...
Hmmm, I guess it really depends on how much damage the party will actually help you out with.
Again, it shouldn't be that much in the long run since after all, they can only use basic/weak attacks and absolutely nothing else. This gives you more control over most ARPG titles.

It's also worth mentioning that later in the game, you get access to three ATB slots total, possibly even more so that seems to indicate that manual commands will become even more prominent as time goes on.

User Info: cjtencounter

cjtencounter
1 month ago#8
Dunal posted...
As you get further into the game, I'd imagine that this will happen a lot less often.

These trash mobs early on don't really require ATB skills/magic to kill quickly, so basic attacks (which are the only ones used by the AI) are sufficient to clear them out. However, later on as the game gets progressively more difficult and complex, I doubt you'll be able to kill off enemies quickly using just these basic attacks which means you'll need to command your party to deal most of your damage, including foes that require specific members to take down.

Yeah man, I'm hoping you're right. It'll probably be totally balanced out the further you get which is why I'm still holding out until the final game releases. It's really difficult to truly know how engaging the gameplay is going to be.
But right now, I'm feeling there's no in between....this could either turn out to be really good or really bad.

Dunal posted...
Again, it shouldn't be that much in the long run since after all, they can only use basic/weak attacks and absolutely nothing else. This gives you more control over most ARPG titles.

That is true. Not to mention, already by the looks of it they totally beefed up the HP of the Guard Scorpion even to make up for all the damage that is being done at every given opportunity. So yeah, this could all balance itself out.
TOP 5 consoles: 1. PS1 | 2. PS2 | 3. NES | 4. Genesis | 5. PS3

User Info: blitz_0623

blitz_0623
1 month ago#9
cjtencounter posted...
No, haven't played those games.

Ughh, on paper I love how everything looked in battle as I'm watching...but I feel when I'll be playing this won't be the kind of game I want to play. It's not what I had in mind with it.
Hmmm, I guess it really depends on how much damage the party will actually help you out with.
If what I think is right, they only do chip damage and will never use an ATB charge (maybe unless Square adds an FFXII gambit style AI), and even in the demo mashing square without using ATB takes a while to kill enemies. Add in the fact AIs don't aggressively attack (you can tell they charge their ATBs much slower than the character you're controlling) I don't think it should happen very often but it WILL happen

Also, in Tales games in FF7R context, AIs use ATB charges

User Info: cjtencounter

cjtencounter
1 month ago#10
blitz_0623 posted...
If what I think is right, they only do chip damage and will never use an ATB charge (maybe unless Square adds an FFXII gambit style AI), and even in the demo mashing square without using ATB takes a while to kill enemies. Add in the fact AIs don't aggressively attack (you can tell they charge their ATBs much slower than the character you're controlling) I don't think it should happen very often but it WILL happen

Also, in Tales games in FF7R context, AIs use ATB charges

Man, I just really gotta get some hands on with this to really know what we're getting here. I mean, I can see things being well done for sure it's just that FFXII, FFXIII and FFXV were the 3 games I did not like in this franchise and they all featured some sort of auto-AI gameplay mechanic that just took me out of the experience. The battles ended up just boring me.

I'll have to check out those Tales game, I think.
TOP 5 consoles: 1. PS1 | 2. PS2 | 3. NES | 4. Genesis | 5. PS3
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