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User Info: throva

throva
2 days ago#201
what is really bad is not even just Irvine not mentioning it. It's him not even having a reaction when he met them. He should've at least been like: "Hey... you guys are familiar..." and then everyone blows him off. He then discovers their name and gets all funky quiet, but goes along to the mission. It would add an interesting layer of stress on him, which would've been pretty interesting.

Also, the whole abandoning thing in the desert prison makes him seem even worse of a jerk.

Lastly, Cid should've, at some point, mentioned that he put some effort to bring them together and that he knew about the amnesia (hence why he wasn't surprised about them not recognising anyone. he kinda says it, but implicitly IIRC)

If it wasn't for these three things, the whole reveal wouldn't have been that bad. The way it is is just thrown on us with no shred of logic whatsoever and with fairly small impact.
angles are among us

User Info: ArtiRock

ArtiRock
2 days ago#202
sano83 posted...
What is dumb about this?
Late game Disc 2, Squall comments about how irritated he is at the party trying to hook him up with Rinoa. Yet, suddenly at Disc 3, the game expects you to buy that Squall is so upset about Rinoa that he'll drop everything to WALK to save her despite when she was hanging off a cliff a couple of days ago, he wasn't worried about trying to save her. While one could argue that this was because he was dealing with a crisis, there wasn't exactly a time to relax then either. After all, Edea is telling Squall about Ultimecia and that she is STILL actively a threat, and he basically all but shuts down for it and doesn't bother trying to do anything until Rinoa is okay. Quistis has a crush on Squall and basically just gives up "when Rinoa came on the scene" despite the fact that they have no chemistry. You'd think she would have upped her game instead. But whatever, it doesn't matter. It's cool. Having an interesting non-forced love triangle sucks. Why bother having her have a crush on him if her notion is to be in a party with him for 2 seconds and then give up the minute he meets Riona (which is like... 4 hours in of a 40 hour game).

sano83 posted...
How is this worse than Cloud memories messed, or Terra being mind controlled?
Because Cloud's is integral to the plot, and his memory loss is actually clearly detailed for why it happened. Terra's slave crown is dumb, because it's a plot point that happens and passes and we get nothing about the development of slave crowns or see one every again. Let's not forget that we don't even know when it was put on, because based on the sprites, it seems like it was recent-- which is odd, because her backstory has her being basically raised by the emperor. So it really doesn't make sense WHY they would need one in the first place.
The GFs are dumb because it never plays any other point and makes Irvine's reaction to the characters really stupid. Let's not forget that it also retroactively makes whoever was the chucklehead to assign Irvine to shoot the sorceress as a massive moron because they didn't bother to check with the relationships between the characters and failed to realize that you're basically having a kid shoot his own mother and expecting him to be fine with that.

This is the duty of the Grim Angels.

User Info: sano83

sano83
2 days ago#203
That does fit the story.

Irvine abandoning Selphie in the Desert Prision make no sense at all. I can see him abandoning everyone else thinking "they are pros, they will be able to escape somehow", but Selphie? He is supposed to be in love since they where kids.
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
[Show...A Little More Respect ...For Faerie Tales, Riskbreaker.]

User Info: ArtiRock

ArtiRock
2 days ago#204
sano83 posted...
Yes, it was. There is a conversation where some shady gardenmaster goon tell Squall to not believe the rumors of GF causing amnesia.
No. He says to not listen to GF critics.
This is the duty of the Grim Angels.

User Info: ArtiRock

ArtiRock
2 days ago#205
sano83 posted...
That does fit the story.

Irvine abandoning Selphie in the Desert Prision make no sense at all. I can see him abandoning everyone else thinking "they are pros, they will be able to escape somehow", but Selphie? He is supposed to be in love since they where kids.
What fits the story? It's pretty pointless all things considered.

This is the duty of the Grim Angels.

User Info: sano83

sano83
2 days ago#206
ArtiRock posted...
Yet, suddenly at Disc 3, the game expects you to buy that Squall is so upset about Rinoa that he'll drop everything to WALK to save her despite when she was hanging off a cliff a couple of days ago, he wasn't worried about trying to save her.

I personally think that it is pretty different to not worried about her hanging on the side of of the garden to send someone you trust while you don´t avoid responsabilities.
In fact, him leaving his post just to rescue Rinoa make him a bit worse as a character.

ArtiRock posted...
Quistis has a crush on Squall and basically just gives up "when Rinoa came on the scene" despite the fact that they have no chemistry. You'd think she would have upped her game instead. But whatever, it doesn't matter. It's cool. Having an interesting non-forced love triangle sucks. Why bother having her have a crush on him if her notion is to be in a party with him for 2 seconds and then give up the minute he meets Riona (which is like... 4 hours in of a 40 hour game).

Squall obviously have chemistry with Rinoa since the dancing scene. Do you think that he would have danced with anyone else?
I think (and obviously this is head canon) that he was interested when she was a random stranger, but then went to profesional mercenary attitude and tried to maintain it for the longest time possible.

ArtiRock posted...
Because Cloud's is integral to the plot, and his memory loss is actually clearly detailed for why it happened. Terra's slave crown is dumb, because it's a plot point that happens and passes and we get nothing about the development of slave crowns or see one every again. Let's not forget that we don't even know when it was put on, because based on the sprites, it seems like it was recent-- which is odd, because her backstory has her being basically raised by the emperor. So it really doesn't make sense WHY they would need one in the first place.

I don´t remember much of Final Fantasy VI.
Garden Forces making people forget is referenced when Squall becomes a SeeD, in the basketball court (which, while dumb, it is there to show the resolve of the characters, as in what are they willing to sacrifice. It could have been done better, sure), and later after the party returns from space in a conversation between Rinoa and Squall.

ArtiRock posted...
The GFs are dumb because it never plays any other point and makes Irvine's reaction to the characters really stupid. Let's not forget that it also retroactively makes whoever was the chucklehead to assign Irvine to shoot the sorceress as a massive moron because they didn't bother to check with the relationships between the characters and failed to realize that you're basically having a kid shoot his own mother and expecting him to be fine with that.

Oh, man, I did not thought of that.
Galbadia is run by such bunch of... "less than average inteligent" people that it is not a surprise that was controlled by Seifer for a while of the game.
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
[Show...A Little More Respect ...For Faerie Tales, Riskbreaker.]

User Info: sano83

sano83
2 days ago#207
ArtiRock posted...
sano83 posted...
That does fit the story.

Irvine abandoning Selphie in the Desert Prision make no sense at all. I can see him abandoning everyone else thinking "they are pros, they will be able to escape somehow", but Selphie? He is supposed to be in love since they where kids.
What fits the story? It's pretty pointless all things considered.


I did not quoted it, I was talking about Throva post #201, but you sneaked a post while I was writting.
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
[Show...A Little More Respect ...For Faerie Tales, Riskbreaker.]

User Info: sano83

sano83
2 days ago#208
ArtiRock posted...
sano83 posted...
Yes, it was. There is a conversation where some shady gardenmaster goon tell Squall to not believe the rumors of GF causing amnesia.
No. He says to not listen to GF critics.

You are right, I went to check and just say GF critics.
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
[Show...A Little More Respect ...For Faerie Tales, Riskbreaker.]

User Info: ArtiRock

ArtiRock
2 days ago#209
sano83 posted...
I personally think that it is pretty different to not worried about her hanging on the side of of the garden to send someone you trust while you don´t avoid responsabilities.
In fact, him leaving his post just to rescue Rinoa make him a bit worse as a character.
The biggest reason it's dumb is how the whole thing is setup. Rinoa gets in danger, and the rest of the party grabs the idiot ball and refuse to do the rescuing themselves despite the fact that they are RIGHT THERE. It's like... Ropes don't exist? I get how "romantic" it seems for Squall to do this, but the entire scenario is forced to the max. This is some of the reason I think FFVIII gets so much flak for its story. It has good ideas, but never really knows how to get them, so it kinda meanders around at moments to get somewhere awesome.

sano83 posted...
Squall obviously have chemistry with Rinoa since the dancing scene. Do you think that he would have danced with anyone else?
I think (and obviously this is head canon) that he was interested when she was a random stranger, but then went to profesional mercenary attitude and tried to maintain it for the longest time possible.
Not really. He danced with her, and then she immediately goes off to find Seifer. That's pretty s***ty.If he was, he did a really terrible job since it was supposed to be a celebration for him and the people that made it.

sano83 posted...
I don´t remember much of Final Fantasy VI.
Garden Forces making people forget is referenced when Squall becomes a SeeD, in the basketball court (which, while dumb, it is there to show the resolve of the characters, as in what are they willing to sacrifice. It could have been done better, sure), and later after the party returns from space in a conversation between Rinoa and Squall.
Which isn't necessary. They are already willing to put their lives on the line when no one else will. That's good enough. And instead, they could have focused on establishing the bonds that they DID form all the while going on adventures and realizing that they had people that they cared about and wanted to protect.

sano83 posted...
I did not quoted it, I was talking about Throva post #201, but you sneaked a post while I was writting.
Gotcha.
This is the duty of the Grim Angels.

User Info: Aurora-Silver

Aurora-Silver
2 days ago#210
Squalls and Rinoa's Love seemed so much forced...

Not only because of that Ring stuff Zell asked for.

Remembering that dumb concert... Gosh. I mean, it was fun seeing them all performing, but really? In the end it was nothing but an attempt to bring them together and yes I know you could make choices but, Squall reacted quite annoyed as well, when he was "invited" to go to the concert with her. I don't remember the exact wording but, guess it was something like "I'll stay here with you until you say yes and go with me" or whatever. And Squall only agreed because he was annoyed...

Overall it felt simply forced and that Space Scene is another peak >>
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