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  3. Lothric Knight Long Spear PvP - review & showcase

User Info: HeyItsTig

HeyItsTig
1 month ago#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1S88_X9GeE

Hello everyone, in this video I will review and showcase the lothric knight long spear, a weapon that nobody uses.
Before we get technical I just want to point out how awesome this spear looks, I mean just look at that fabric..its top notch!

This pike deals thrust damage and is thus best on a physical build with the leo ring. I find that with refined it gets the highest
2 handed AR of 424 which is quite decent considering the leo counters you'll get after trades.

This weapon gives a poise boost that seems to work off of a poise percentage. Unfortunately none of its normal attacks have hyperarmor,
and the only attack that does is the weapon art L2. The 2 handed moveset is faster and you get the normal r1 r1 combo. The r2s have
surprisingly good tracking and are a good mixup for rollcatches. So if someone is trying to strafe you instead of unlocking your r1
you can throw out an r2 instead.

Because the L2 has hyperarmor, it's best used for setup trades. A very interesting property is that not only does the L2 combo into
R2, but the L2 R2 combo true combos into r1! for about 700 damage.

For my build I went over 40.46 poise, which is very easy to do since this weapon gives a natural poise boost. This breakpoint
allows me to tank throgh a Fume ultra greatsword 2 handed r1, so with enough poise you shouldn't be afraid of setup trades with
hyperarmor weapons.

Let's talk about matchups. Obviously, the biggest weakness of this weapon is a high stability shield. Sure if your opponent is dumb
and is trying to block strafe you, you can get a counter bs, but a good opponent won't do that soooo...you'll need ancillary weapons.
Offhand i have the demon's fist which I've learned deals a ton of stamina damage. Additionally the offhand weapon can also be used as
mixup as well. I equipped the caestus in the second slot for resetting poise with perseverance.

Another thing you want to watch out for is parries. If your opponent has a parry tool, they can reaction parry your r1, so you can't throw
them out. Instead, either bait out their attacks and punish, or mixup with r2s, or your offhand weapon.

Lastly, I need to mention that this weapon has a very bad running attack. It's a multi hit attack like on a greatlance that unfortunately
drains half your stamina and is effectively useless against most setups, so don't use it. One last thing about the weapon art,
if you whiff it, go ahead and extend into r2 as it'll create more distance and has a fast recovery.
Greatlance is love, Greatlance is life

User Info: Temple

Temple
1 month ago#2
Cool showcase. Love this weapon. Have to say though, the ar is better sharp with 14str 66dex(same investment as 40/40) but I go 14str 70dex which gives me a 2h ar of 460-something

User Info: Juxtapose

Juxtapose
1 month ago#3
It's lack of a horizontal swings make it particularly weak to the White Tree Branch.

https://youtu.be/fHHy5R5Hk_s
No victim no crime.

User Info: JimmyWilly

JimmyWilly
1 month ago#4
Juxtapose posted...
It's lack of a horizontal swings make it particularly weak to the White Tree Branch.

https://youtu.be/fHHy5R5Hk_s


When you said White Tree Branch I really hoped you meant Young White Branch. I wasn't disappointed, that was great haha

User Info: Button_Masher_Z

Button_Masher_Z
1 month ago#5
L2 R2 R1 actually gives it a niche I didn’t know it had. Greatlance reverses that though, R1 L2 R2... I get the impression the long spear’s L2 is harder to land set up, but benefits from poise better than greatlance’s R1, WAs often do get better poise. For the longest time, I though long spear was just a weaker, poiseless greatlance. It’s still weaker, and has no R1 poise, but if the playstyle involves the charge a bit more, that’s an interesting tidbit for me.

I also agree, it’s a dex weapon, not a quality weapon. There are very few quality weapons anymore. Though quality lets you mix the two types, which is one of its two niches as a build.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: HeyItsTig

HeyItsTig
1 month ago#6
Button_Masher_Z posted...
L2 R2 R1 actually gives it a niche I didn’t know it had. Greatlance reverses that though, R1 L2 R2... I get the impression the long spear’s L2 is harder to land set up, but benefits from poise better than greatlance’s R1, WAs often do get better poise. For the longest time, I though long spear was just a weaker, poiseless greatlance. It’s still weaker, and has no R1 poise, but if the playstyle involves the charge a bit more, that’s an interesting tidbit for me.

I also agree, it’s a dex weapon, not a quality weapon. There are very few quality weapons anymore. Though quality lets you mix the two types, which is one of its two niches as a build.

Comparing the AR: 40/40 refined gives 451 2H which is higher than sharp on 20/60. Additionally, with refined setup you get access to optimal throwing knives.

The L2 must be done on trade prediction, but may also be done on reaction against weapons with slow startup. It has about 20 hyperarmor startup frames so ~0.33s, which means that on reaction a faster weapon will interrupt it. Additionally that will also put you at a disadvantage because you'll be forced to roll. Reaction trades against fast weapons isn't optimal; you may win the first trade but you'll be forced to roll because the R1 doesn't have a fast startup.

Aside from the 2H hyperarmor the thing that separates the lkls from the greatlance is the R2. You can use the R2 for mixups and rollcatches, and it has good tracking.
Greatlance is love, Greatlance is life

User Info: Juxtapose

Juxtapose
1 month ago#7
JimmyWilly posted...
Juxtapose posted...
It's lack of a horizontal swings make it particularly weak to the White Tree Branch.

https://youtu.be/fHHy5R5Hk_s


When you said White Tree Branch I really hoped you meant Young White Branch. I wasn't disappointed, that was great haha

Ops ahaha. But yes, I enjoyed bringing a little uniqueness and magic to that melee fest. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Personally, the Great Lance is much scarier to me but the Lothric Spear is the poise spear.
No victim no crime.

User Info: Button_Masher_Z

Button_Masher_Z
1 month ago#8
16/64 is 452 ar on the sharp lkls, and you can pick a non warrior and get 14/66, which would be even more, and the scaling is still decent up to 74 dex.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: Temple

Temple
1 month ago#9
HeyItsTig posted...
Button_Masher_Z posted...
L2 R2 R1 actually gives it a niche I didn’t know it had. Greatlance reverses that though, R1 L2 R2... I get the impression the long spear’s L2 is harder to land set up, but benefits from poise better than greatlance’s R1, WAs often do get better poise. For the longest time, I though long spear was just a weaker, poiseless greatlance. It’s still weaker, and has no R1 poise, but if the playstyle involves the charge a bit more, that’s an interesting tidbit for me.

I also agree, it’s a dex weapon, not a quality weapon. There are very few quality weapons anymore. Though quality lets you mix the two types, which is one of its two niches as a build.

Comparing the AR: 40/40 refined gives 451 2H which is higher than sharp on 20/60. Additionally, with refined setup you get access to optimal throwing knives.

The L2 must be done on trade prediction, but may also be done on reaction against weapons with slow startup. It has about 20 hyperarmor startup frames so ~0.33s, which means that on reaction a faster weapon will interrupt it. Additionally that will also put you at a disadvantage because you'll be forced to roll. Reaction trades against fast weapons isn't optimal; you may win the first trade but you'll be forced to roll because the R1 doesn't have a fast startup.

Aside from the 2H hyperarmor the thing that separates the lkls from the greatlance is the R2. You can use the R2 for mixups and rollcatches, and it has good tracking.

Throwing knives may be, but the damage two handed (and one handed) is still better sharp with 14/66 (447, 454) than refined 40/40 (427, 451).

Now that’s not a big difference 2h, but like I said, go for the extra 4 stats in dex. 14/70 sharp gives you 462.

I see that refined could be better, because of throwables and such, but it doesn’t do more damage

User Info: JimmyWilly

JimmyWilly
1 month ago#10
Temple posted...

Throwing knives may be, but the damage two handed (and one handed) is still better sharp with 14/66 (447, 454) than refined 40/40 (427, 451).

Now that’s not a big difference 2h, but like I said, go for the extra 4 stats in dex. 14/70 sharp gives you 462.

I see that refined could be better, because of throwables and such, but it doesn’t do more damage


40/40 is still the best for weapon diversity. Can use 90% of the weapons in the game with it. It also gives you some spicy hardswap options, like Gundyr's if you're in to that sort of thing.

Idk it's more of a preference for which build you prefer, since the AR difference is rather negligible.
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