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User Info: johnrayjr

johnrayjr
3 months ago#1
So far, I have not played a dedicated caster in DS3, though I did in a couple of the earlier games. I keep hearing that mages are pretty bad, whether sorcery, pyromancy, or miracles.

I'm currently playing a STR-FTH build, with 40 STR and 45 FTH. I'm mostly using faith for damage scaling and for defensive miracles, but a few times I've tried things like Sunlight Spear using a decently upgraded chime.

Damage seemed unimpressive. Not... weak per se... but for a miracle that requires 40 FTH to use, it did not seem compelling.

What do you guys think? Is offensive magic kind of meh in this game or...?

User Info: Button_Masher_Z

Button_Masher_Z
3 months ago#2
Go 60 fth if you want damage from miracles.

Doesn’t have to be bad, but it’s high investment for samey results.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: INCompl

INCompl
3 months ago#3
Damage is still pretty good for casters, they’re just not as broken as they were in previous games. Casters struggle a bit at first in PvE but by the end of the game and subsequent cycles it’s a cakewalk. Pyromancers have the fastest turnaround for being good since they can get their best spell just after the Abyss Watchers. Sorcerers get more utility spells before the Abyss Watchers and don’t really start hitting hard until you get to the Profaned Capital. Faith builds don’t get damage until you’re already done the game but have the best utility spells. With spells like sunlight spear, you’ll get higher damage the closer an enemy is to you. So if you want max damage then you’ll need to be practically on top of whatever you’re trying to hit, which is why poise casting is so important.

User Info: MagickArrow

MagickArrow
3 months ago#4
60 in int or fth for sorcery or miracles respectively. Damage is great when you stack all the gear.

I killed ng+5 watchers solo with my mage and never moved from entering the boss room.
Don't go and die over nothing

User Info: ImmortalDragonX

ImmortalDragonX
3 months ago#5
For pyros, you'd want to aim for about 40/40 faith/intelligence.

For dark sorceries, 45 for both when using Izalith staff. The Murky Longstaff from the Ringed City DLC is comparable with standard sorcery stats (60 int) and minimal faith investment (you could just about leave it at base faith requirements to use the staff) for dark sorcery spells, especially when factoring in its WA, which is specially tailored to give a significant buff to dark sorcery spells compared to other staffs. However, the first option (45/45 + Izalith) will produce better results overall in this field.

IME, both of these schools (as well as the others) perform rather admirably for both PVP and PVE (moreso the latter) in the damage department. Spells like Chaos Bed Vestiges and Great Soul Dregs will hit like trucks when supported with appropriate loadouts. I remember being summoned as a Darkmoon somewhat recently, getting a good clean shot on the invader, and slamming him for 700+ points of damage with a Great Soul Dregs spell. As he was already at about half-ish health, he did not survive.

In the case of pyromancy, people notice when they get hammered with a CBV. Often to the point that they will make whoever threw the damn thing a priority target.

Sorcery and miracles are much the same. Pretty much no one enjoys eating a Crystal Soul Spear and damn near loath being the target of someone with Lightning Arrow.

All that said, playing a caster in PVP can often be a tricky prospect and will often boil down to your spell loadout and a bit of luck. Doable, for certain, just don't expect to blast through people nearly as easily as (most) AI baddies.
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User Info: Juxtapose

Juxtapose
3 months ago#6
Intelligence damage from sorcery is actually really good if you properly invest into it. 60 intelligence, all the gear, etc.
You can take the tryhard out of Old Wolf, but you can't take Old Wolf out of the tryhard.

User Info: Button_Masher_Z

Button_Masher_Z
3 months ago#7
Juxtapose posted...
Intelligence damage from sorcery is actually really good if you properly invest into it. 60 intelligence, all the gear, etc.

Intelligence damage.

Making all the scrubs more stupider.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: LOOOPS

LOOOPS
3 months ago#8
Incoming rambling, for the past few days I've started a new character (assassin class) and going pure sorc. Just defeated lothric and about to start the DLC's.

The damage is decent but not enough to replace melee entirely IMO. I use both rings and the Sage Ring, but not the candlestick or the meme tiara. Overall I still find melee easier to use. I used Crystal Claymore for most of the game because I like to have my staff in my right hand. Switched to MLGS later on. I also have a fully upgraded Pyro flame that I use for bosses resistant to magic (Aldrich, Oceirus etc). The pyro flame does better against those bosses at 50 Int than CSS even with barely any Faith investment. Now that I have 50 int (for Crystal Soul Spear) I'm debating going for 10 more Int or pumping Faith instead so I can better use pyromancies/chaos weapons and dark spells (healing spells as a bonus). On my other character Dorris's gnawing with Crystal Chime was basically my favorite spell. Melee most stuff, cast that on the annoying enemies like the red skull goats in Farron Swamp or clusters of enemies. Now the spell I use most is Crystal Soul Spear but I also have the basic Great Soul Arrow for utility.
Shoot first, think never.
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User Info: Terenigma

Terenigma
3 months ago#9
Spell damage is fine if you use both appropriate rings and the 60 stats (or 40/40 if you're pyro) but i think it's kind of BS that we're forced into using BOTH damage rings AND sage ring just to keep up with most Melee weapons in PVP. Yes you could say but we also have Melee but what we lack is a nice big stack of Estus like pure-Melee since we need to also balance our magic usage.

If you wanna talk about first-run then PVE Magic is straight up garbage. They really messed up how you unlock spells in this game. Pyro can just about manage but Mage and Faith are literal garbage up until pretty much the end of the game. As someone said previously tho that once you hit the 60cap then PVE becomes a joke but up until then, it's a chore to try and beat the game for pure-magic.

If you wanna talk about PVP then it becomes a little tougher but on the whole i think all 3 are viable:
- Mage is the most viable, fantastic combination of spells and the only downside is juggling Estus's.
- Pyro damage is great but you need to get a little creative to hit enemies with your spells. Black flame and CBV are still super strong tho
- Faith is good mostly because of lightning arrow and Dorhy's Gnawing. Stake is also good + you can pretty much full heal with great heal negating the need to balance Estus flasks.
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User Info: LOOOPS

LOOOPS
3 months ago#10
Terenigma posted...
If you wanna talk about first-run then PVE Magic is straight up garbage.


Not true even slightly. Unless you are discounting using melee weapons, which means you are choosing to forgo a tool the game gives you.

My playstyle as a sorc is to use sword and shield for most enemies then switch to spells for enemies that are a b**** to melee, including bosses. I go with 4 blue estuses and that's enough. If you are soul spearing generic enemies then yeah you won't have estus for the boss.
Shoot first, think never.
FC: 3669-3715-9081
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