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  2. Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness
  3. Is there any future for Star Ocean franchise plot wise?

User Info: ClimhazzardZero

ClimhazzardZero
9 months ago#61
immadbro posted...
Lazy_Haar posted...
immadbro posted...
Indelecio: "You will be deleted"

Did you completely miss that bit? He said "DELETED", not killed, not destroyed "DELETED". I cannot understand how people never managed to understand this. Star Ocean 2 foreshadowed the plot twist before Star Ocean 3 was even a thing.


I believe that was only added in the PSP version, which came out many years after 3.

In the original it says "I am erasing you" means the same thing...

Doesn't really mean it was foreshadowing anything, that's just you pulling at whatever thin straws you can.......again.
3DS FC: 5069-3924-4114

User Info: immadbro

immadbro
9 months ago#62
xiutye posted...
immadbro
You're asking for a high budget game? Are you f***ing serious?

Where did I say I wanted it to be high budget? I'm on record at least once that I can remember offhand as saying that a really good SO game could be made on a modest budget just not by the drooling idiots who made SO5. Even financially speaking the problem SO5 had wasn't a low budget. It was mismanagement of the money they did have. Instead of a reasonable amount of content they spent their money developing some very poorly concieved mechanics.

There have been plenty of decent sized games (even more than decent sized) with proven, fun mechanics that have come out of various devs on a modest budget. If I'm not mistaken the Atelier seires is fairly low budget and those games (the ones I've played, I've by no means 100%'d the series) are several steps above SO5, particularly in mechanics.
One specific mistake they made with SO5's budget was developing it for PS3 as well as PS4. I happen to like both platforms so I'm not one of those who say that the PS3 just shouldn't get games anymore. I will say however that it's not the best idea to spend limited funds building your game's code twice. It's not as if the PS3<->PS4 port is a simple matter, the PS3 is a whole different animal to code for.
I'm sure they had their reasons, there's a big install base for the PS3 so that probably explains it right there. But it's hardly useful to make your game available to a wide audience if in doing so you can't make it actually good. That's obviously not the only mistake in SO5's development but it's there and it wasn't free.

I'm also on record (somewhere) as saying games in general (and esp some series such as FF) need to be spending less money, not more. They need to focus more on content, size and mechanics and less on graphics and stupid gimmicks. I blame the eroding attention span (or the perception of an eroded attention span) of gamers for making devs think there isn't a market for a long games with modest graphics. And the idiocy of thinking that more pixels per inch makes things look better regardless of how poorly those things are designed in the first place. There's a reason Chrono Trigger still looks good 23 years later and it ain't because it's somehow 4k now.

So you're blaming the developers of Star Ocean 5 for making a PS3 version? That's Square-Enix's decision.

Regardless this is not up for debate, you are asking for a high budget Star Ocean game. You will never admit it but it's the truth. They made the most with what they had in this game and tried to make it cost-effective to make, even the producer said so. Despite this it still managed to have way more item creation options than any other Star Ocean game and the gameplay managed to fix Star Ocean 3's problems and was still just as fun to play as just about any Star Ocean game. It also managed to do seamless battles right (unlike Zesteria) and the soundtrack was pretty solid too... of course the visuals and the draw distance is stunning as well.

All you people have done is nitpick this game to death. Blade Square-Enix if you want but tri-Ace are the underdogs in all this. They have proven that they are capable developers countless times and this game shows that they still have what it takes if they get more money behind them because they made some very smart design choices with this game, argue all you like but there is a reason for these changes: Pacing. The game might have had some shortcomings but not enough to call ti a bad game or even mediocre, the game isn't a masterpiece by any means but it's still fun to play if you can appreciate low budget games.

Atelier games aren't as low budget as this, Gust are an independant developer, tri-Ace are subsidiaries. Gust have their own money to throw at the game. Tri-Ace don't.
I'm still waiting for a Valkyrie Profile 3, when it happens, please wake me up so i can buy a ps4
3ds Friend Code: 1263-7002-2175

User Info: ClimhazzardZero

ClimhazzardZero
9 months ago#63
immadbro posted...

So you're blaming the developers of Star Ocean 5 for making a PS3 version? That's Square-Enix's decision.

Regardless this is not up for debate, you are asking for a high budget Star Ocean game. You will never admit it but it's the truth. They made the most with what they had in this game and tried to make it cost-effective to make, even the producer said so. Despite this it still managed to have way more item creation options than any other Star Ocean game and the gameplay managed to fix Star Ocean 3's problems and was still just as fun to play as just about any Star Ocean game. It also managed to do seamless battles right (unlike Zesteria) and the soundtrack was pretty solid too... of course the visuals and the draw distance is stunning as well.

All you people have done is nitpick this game to death. Blade Square-Enix if you want but tri-Ace are the underdogs in all this. They have proven that they are capable developers countless times and this game shows that they still have what it takes if they get more money behind them because they made some very smart design choices with this game, argue all you like but there is a reason for these changes: Pacing. The game might have had some shortcomings but not enough to call ti a bad game or even mediocre, the game isn't a masterpiece by any means but it's still fun to play if you can appreciate low budget games.

Atelier games aren't as low budget as this, Gust are an independant developer, tri-Ace are subsidiaries. Gust have their own money to throw at the game. Tri-Ace don't.

Oh geeze, I don't even know where to begin with all of the wrong things in this post...........
3DS FC: 5069-3924-4114

User Info: xiutye

xiutye
9 months ago#64
ClimhazzardZero
Oh geeze, I don't even know where to begin with all of the wrong things in this post

I really don't either but I'll give it a shot.

immadbro
So you're blaming the developers of Star Ocean 5 for making a PS3 version? That's Square-Enix's decision.

So blame SE then. You know who's fault it still isn't? The players.

Regardless this is not up for debate, you are asking for a high budget Star Ocean game. You will never admit it but it's the truth.

Go back and find the place where I said think any SO game should have a large budget. Find the quote. We'll wait. You won't find that quote because it's not there. I never said that, I don't want that and you're just trying to build a strawman to argue with. Have fun with that.

They made the most with what they had in this game and tried to make it cost-effective to make

They wasted a lot of money on gimmicks.

Despite this it still managed to have way more item creation options than any other Star Ocean game and the gameplay managed to fix Star Ocean 3's problems and was still just as fun to play as just about any Star Ocean game. It also managed to do seamless battles right (unlike Zesteria) and the soundtrack was pretty solid too... of course the visuals and the draw distance is stunning as well.

Item creation was watered down compared to SO4.
For every "problem" with SO3 they "fixed" they added a worse one.
It's not fun for a lot of us because it sucked. We know you liked it, that's just a matter of taste and/or self delusion.
Seamless battles are a gimmick that made the game worse, not better. Zesteria's battle system is the lowest bar there's ever been to clear. Congrats to SO5 for not being as bad as the worst screwup in Tales history.
The soundtrack is mainly just the soundtrack from SO3 and SO4.
The graphics are decent as long as you're not in combat. The art style leaves something to be desired, especially in character design. And having a long draw distance is kinda a joke when your game's world is so tiny there's noting to see.

They have proven that they are capable developers countless times and this game shows that they still have what it takes if they get more money behind them because they made some very smart design choices with this game, argue all you like but there is a reason for these changes: Pacing.

So now you're saying you want a high budget game?
They've shown they can make a pretty decent battle system when they don't try to cram it full of stupid gimmicks. I'd suggest they don't break their arms patting themselves on the back. They made bad design choices, which is why the game failed. You're seriously going to sit there and argue that a Star Ocean game where there's no space travel and only one planet, in a post SO3/SO4 world is a good design choice? Ok man, have fun with that too.

You're arguing that the game is good because you liked it. It's fine that you liked it but you're in the minority on that. That's also fine, you're allowed to like games that other ppl don't. I'd take a black eye and a minor stabbing for your right to play SO5 as many times as you want. You don't have the right for other people to agree that it's good when it's not.
I may not be able to convince you of this but we don't dislike SO5 for some devious reasons or because it's not enuf like SO3. We don't like it because of the way it plays, the content of the actual game. It's not a matter of getting a cheeseburger when you ordered a steak, it's a matter of getting a cold cheeseburger with a dead fly on it.

User Info: immadbro

immadbro
9 months ago#65
@xiutye
The amount of bias in your response pierces the heavens. Stop talking as if you have evidence to prove when quite literally everything you have said in response to me is objectively wrong. Seamlessness is not a gimmick, it's a system designed to improve the pacing of the game.I said this to you before, you clearly ignored that and still continue to pass it off as a gimmick. No battle transitions means less time is wasted for the player, having all 6 party members on screen means you don't have bench party members who you will never use and saves you from having to switch them in/out of the party which takes time.

Star Ocean 4's item creation and Star Ocean 5''s item creation is EXACTLY THE SAME.

The only difference is that Star Ocean 4 doesn't have item synthesis. If you argue this then you clearly lack a brain cell.

Speaking of bias... when I being up the soundtrack, you argue that the music is mostly tracks from Star Ocean 3 and 4. You see what I mean? You are so biased that you ignore all the good parts of the game and only express your own personal nitpicks. Your opinion is laughable as a result.

You make out that Star Ocean 5 is the worst thing ever. In fact nearly everyone in this forum has started a crusade against the game as a result and the board is still alive... how sad can you people possibly be? You still bash a game even though we're 2 years post launch... get a f***ing life. If you really don't like the game then stop filling the forums with threads that say "this game sucks", we get it, you've made your point. Now it's time for you to go to other boards of more recent games and get angry over those games instead. You don't need to make the same criticism's 100's of times, we get the f***ing point.

Oh and for the record, I've been watching people stream this game on twitch and enjoying it. They don't whine about the game every 5 seconds like you guys do.

You want to know a bad game? I'll tell you a bad game. Time And Eternity, there you go. Absolute garbage that game was. In comparison, Star Ocean 5 is the second coming of christ. White Knight Chronicles is another trash JRPG, that game is an insult. You thought Star Ocean's story and battle system was bad? Play that game, then you'll have something to complain about.

It's so hard to believe that so many simpletons keep buying games like Final Fantasy XV then complain about it... I stopped playing that series ages ago. Why can't you guys just let it go. I never once complained about Final Fantasy XIII on the forums when I had the most disappointing videogame experience in the past decade after having played it. Final Fantasy XIII makes Star Ocean 5 look like a freaking angel in comparison.

Games like Final Fantasy XV get so much attention... yet Star Ocean does not... however people are willing to forgive Final Fantasy XV, why is nobody willing to look back at this game and see ti for its merits? Anyone who says it has none is lying.

Literally every single complaint I have heard about Star Ocean 5 is a minor nitpick. Name ONE major flaw with the game that breaks the entire game. I don't think you can, because there isn't one. They are all nitpicks. I can nitpick games for ages, I complained about Star Ocean 3 for ages but do I hate the game? NO! I actually liked the game and appreciated that tri-Ace actually tried, the effort was there, the execution just failed. Star Ocean 5 has the same level of effort, it just has a low budget. Of course they had to re-use assets, of course they had to make the world smaller, the game does have space travel (caverlerio anyone?) so you're lying out of your ass.

A cold cheeseburger with a dead fly on it my f***ing ass. You are talking a load of s***. It's insulting that you people give Star Ocean 3 a pass and not this.... INSULTING.
I'm still waiting for a Valkyrie Profile 3, when it happens, please wake me up so i can buy a ps4
3ds Friend Code: 1263-7002-2175

User Info: xiutye

xiutye
9 months ago#66
Pacing was brought up. Let's talk about pacing.

This is one of those things in gaming that, while it is an actual concept and does matter to some degree, has been mutated into a buzzword in the dialog.

For one thing, people have different ideas of what matters in pacing.
Some people are bothered by large shifts in the pacing of a storyline. Like, if a lot of stuff seems to be going on but then you crash on this planet and everything you were doing before is on hold while a much less important and fast paced side story plays out. That sorta thing.
For some people the pacing of the story has to be fast all the time. They want the next plot twist right now dammit!
And so on.

That's story pacing. There's also the far more important gameplay pacing. This is what keeps getting brought up as the reason for the seamless gimmick. Gameplay pacing itself has a couple of layers. One is the immediate pacing of the game engine. This is what "seamless" is meant to effect. The problem is that just to cut out a couple of seconds of load in/load out, they inflict issues on the combat system which the player has to deal with the entire time they're playing. Issues such as cramped battle arenas and a wonky camera with poor controls. Issues such as weird little "pockets" of monsters. When you're actually in the one large area of the game it stands out like a sore thumb that these creature groups are just milling around in a confined space, hemmed in by invisible walls.
Because they thought the battlescape transition was an evil that had to be faced, fought and defeated at any cost. To anyone who agrees with that idea I would like to suggest, as politely as I possibly can, that they crush up ritian and snort it till their attention span exceeds 5 seconds. Or, ya know, just play a different type of video game.

Another layer of gameplay pacing is advancement speed. This is where a lot of games these days try to ram an unlubed catheter up your wallet and drain you dry. It's about "grinding" and how much of it do you need to do to be on par with the next stuff you're meant to beat into submission. Here I'm going to draw a lot of ire because I like "grinding". A lot. But there's a caveat and it's probably the biggest elephant in any room of gaming I've ever seen. Gameplay mechanics.
The premise goes like this:
If a game's core gameplay (the battle system, the process of pressing buttons and moving the sticks in such a way that the monsters die and your characters don't) is fun then it's a fun game to play.
If a game's core gameplay isn't fun, that should stop the train in its tracks. Why play it? Trade it in for some other game that is fun.
If the game is fun, then you're never "grinding" in the sense that "it's a grind". You're killing a lot of the same things because when they die xp comes out and makes you stronger. But you're actually killing them because the process of killing them is fun.

This is one reason the microtransaction craze baffles me. When you buy XP, or loot boxes, or some other power-effecting thing in a game you're pretty much paying instead of playing. You're paying money so you don't have to play the game. But... you can stop playing the game for free, if it's not actually fun.
When I realized I hated the combat system in Zesteria, I didn't wish I could buy levels or gear or something to make it go faster. I put the game aside and played something else. Same for SO5 (to a lesser degree). My point here is that it's really perverse to buy your way out of something that you bought your way into in the first place and can instantly get out of for free.

"Pacing" is thrown around a lot in gaming and most of the time it's an excuse or sorta the wrong complaint. A game isn't bad because the pacing is bad, it's simply bad and the pacing doesn't "let" you get it over with fast enuf.

User Info: xiutye

xiutye
9 months ago#67
immadbro
The amount of bias in your response pierces the heavens.

Quoted for hilarity.

Star Ocean 4's item creation and Star Ocean 5''s item creation is EXACTLY THE SAME

SO5's is based on the core mechanics of SO4's but they're not the same. The factors you can add to gear are a lot different and that's where the customization and choices come into play, which is the important part and the reason to have IC instead of just gear drops. The way that they're different is that they're watered down. Hence, SO5's IC is watered down. The reasons for this are probably:
1: In previous games, IC has been the way to make your characters uber and they wanted to get away from that.
2: They crammed character bonuses into the AI controls which would otherwise have existed as factors on gear, so pretty much roles stole some of IC's power.

The only difference is that Star Ocean 4 doesn't have item synthesis

SO4 doesn't have SO5's synthesis (and gawd I wish they hadn't used the same word for two totally different features across the games). But it also didn't need it. Synthesis in SO5 is a cesspit of RNG with a heaping side order of save scumming.

when I being up the soundtrack, you argue that the music is mostly tracks from Star Ocean 3 and 4.

You can bring up the music as a good point about SO5 but I'm not allowed to point out the fact that a lot of it is just taken from previous games?

Oh and for the record, I've been watching people stream this game on twitch and enjoying it. They don't whine about the game every 5 seconds like you guys do.

I'm seriously shocked that people who like the game don't complain about it. Like, really man? Because some ppl like it that means it's good and nobody should complain? We should all love it or pretend we love it.

why is nobody willing to look back at this game and see ti for its merits? Anyone who says it has none is lying.

Are there good things about SO5? Sure, it didn't give me cancer (probably) and it never crashed on me. Thing is, if a person doesn't like it overall then they're not obligated to just ignore all the problems and talk about whatever upsides it has.

Literally every single complaint I have heard about Star Ocean 5 is a minor nitpick.

The camera sucks. The characters' movesets are too sparse (not enuf moves and they're stupidly story locked). The game's too small, the whole thing seems like it's just the "recruiting Reila" segment. The AI controls are garbage. Having all characters in battle at once makes combat a flashy mess that the player has diminished effect on. All characters forced into battle also removes any element of player choice in building a team. If you don't like somebody, too bad you're stuck with them. I could go on. You keep attempting to wield the word "nitpick" as if you calling something a nitpick reduces that thing's influence on the gameplay to a negligible level. I wish it did, because now that you've called all the core problems with SO5 "nitpicks" it would make the game worth playing. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. It's like the black knight from Monty Pyton and The Holy Grail; you can say you've got legs but if you don't, you don't.

You also keep using the word "bias" as if it's some sort of sonic screwdriver of debate. If my opinion is that SO5 sucks and yours is that SO5 is good, then of course we each have a "bias". An "unbiased" opinion about a video game would be just a list of technical specs. Wake us when that's over.

Regarding Final Fantasy: There really hasn't been a playable FF game since the PS2.

User Info: Velvet__Crowe

Velvet__Crowe
9 months ago#68
@immadbro

Hooker, it's only worthwhile to focus on the positives instead of sweating the negatives if in one's opinion the positives outweigh the negatives. I won't pretend to be the Emissary of Gamers Everywhere, but I think the sales numbers, critic and user scores, and the views expressed on this very board dating back to launch day and people who picked it up over the holiday reflect that the general consensus is that tri-Ace dropped the ball so hard it made a crater. When a game hits the shelves and gets 70s, 80s and 90s everywhere, people tend to talk about what it does really well. When a game hits the shelves and receives an almost instant sub-60 score, people are gonna talk about what it does that drags its quality down that far.

And following on from that, SO3's PS4 port is sitting at a reasonable 72 right meow. The game obviously did something right if a polished up, higher resolution version of it can be released two full generations later and still sell reasonably well, and get decent scores.

@xiutye

:3 I really like FFXII. I feel like it found a nice middle ground between Tactics games (which I can't stand) and traditional Final Fantasy, which I have a mixed relationship with. And I had a reasonable amount of fun with FFXV. Even if I'm not really crazy about the whole One Direction on a road trip with magic swords... thing. I feel like on this particular position, you'd be the (significantly more sane!) immadbro. FFXV has been really well reviewed, publicly received and sold reasonably well (still making sales on its PC release, too!). Flawless? Nope. But is it the trash it has been sometimes implied to be here? Hmmm the world doesn't seem to think so. Just some people who may or may not have valid grievances with the game, which is totally fair. Not everyone has to like every game. (:
"Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously."

User Info: xiutye

xiutye
9 months ago#69
It seems like a lot of ppl disliked FFXII for being different, ppl called it an offline MMO and all that jazz. I liked it, the only thing that really bothered me was the way the espers worked but they're not required to use so meh I just ignore them (apart from collecting them because hey optional boss fight with glowy gem thing at the end? Yeah imma do that).

I might end up getting FFXV at some point. From what I recall a lot of the early gripes with it were from some chapter of the game being incomplete or somesuch but then they've since released a massive patch that fixes that? Not in love with the more action-y type combat but the aeons look friggin epic from what I've seen so for that alone I sorta feel like I need to give it a shot.

User Info: ClimhazzardZero

ClimhazzardZero
9 months ago#70
xiutye posted...
It seems like a lot of ppl disliked FFXII for being different, ppl called it an offline MMO and all that jazz. I liked it, the only thing that really bothered me was the way the espers worked but they're not required to use so meh I just ignore them (apart from collecting them because hey optional boss fight with glowy gem thing at the end? Yeah imma do that).

I might end up getting FFXV at some point. From what I recall a lot of the early gripes with it were from some chapter of the game being incomplete or somesuch but then they've since released a massive patch that fixes that? Not in love with the more action-y type combat but the aeons look friggin epic from what I've seen so for that alone I sorta feel like I need to give it a shot.

The problem with the aeons (or as they're called, Astrals), is that they're randomly activated in battle. You really have no control over when you can summon them and which ones you summon, though some are exclusive to certain area types (like Leviathan being near water). I've noticed though that the summon prompts tend to come up a bit more often when you're losing a battle.

As for the game itself, it wasn't bad from a gameplay standpoint (though there was a severe lack of side activities to do.....other than fishing, AI monster cockfights in Altissa, fetch quests galore and monster hunts, which you could only do ONE at a time). The combat is flashy and smooth as butter with beautiful animations from the characters and enemies, but I wasn't too fond of how simplistic it all was in the long run. My biggest gripe with the game was the story on release (there were so many plotholes you could almost see through it, though I know they patched in alot of reworks to this) and how the game essentially becomes a funnel; it starts you in the open world and you're free to explore for the first few chapters, but once you leave that map in a later chapter you're driven down a railroad all the way to the end of the game (though you're able to go back to the aforementioned map to complete sidequests, do more exploring and such). I ended up finishing the game, platinuming it and getting my hands on every item and equipment that wasn't tied by some timed event, and I don't regret my purchase of the game but I very highly doubt I'll ever go back for a revisit.
3DS FC: 5069-3924-4114
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