Apparently I do not understand ATK Soft Cap. Please explain.

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  3. Apparently I do not understand ATK Soft Cap. Please explain.

User Info: shadestreet

shadestreet
5 months ago#1
Scenario I don't understand:

Against Siren, I have been using TG Cid with USB & Death Throes + Reaping Scythe. Also using OK pUSB (mainly for Riku).

For my first 25 runs against Siren (don't ask) my turn order for TG Cid has been:

1) Death Throes
2) OK pUSB applied
3) Cid USB applied
4) start spamming RS which consistently does 7,000 damage.

Now TG Cid has 2x Dark Boost gear and base ATK Stat of 547. For what it is worth, I also have a +15 and +10 ATK magicite in the deck (mainly for their other skills), all magicites are at 99 and several are heavily inherited.

Out of boredom/see if I could shave off a second or two, I tried TG Cid with a different turn order:

1) OK pUSB
2) Cid USB
3) Death Throes

Now his damage with RS drops to 6,500, pretty noticeable.

Why? How?

I thought after 806 ATK the damage increase is negligible? An 8% drop is not negligible.

The first method yielding 7K damage my ATK score is 1230 before Magicite Passives taken into account (547 * 1.5 from pUSB * 1.5 from TG USB).

Second method yielding 6.5K damage ATK score is 1067.

Both are well above the ATK Soft Cap. What is going on?

User Info: eX Calmune

eX Calmune
5 months ago#2
Death Throes doesn't stack with OK's USB for one, so it is a redundant ability, otherwise I assume Death Throes is also a weaker boost than OK's so therefore you actually have lower attack using it second.
FFRK RW: Forbidden Wisdom - DBof
DFFOO: Cloud NT Buster (Organics passive) 530396574

User Info: FedEx_Corp

FedEx_Corp
5 months ago#3
RS dmg multipler is based on death counter.
The earlier you use DT, the better it is.

Edit: Oh crap, nvm then. I must have thought of another dark skill with doom modifier.
Yeah, DT overrides OK 50% since DT gives 30%.

User Info: Dmonrei

Dmonrei
5 months ago#4
That honestly doesn't make sense. As you mentioned, once you hit soft cap the attack differential should be minimal. My first instinct was to see if you started RS after OK+TGC USB, hence losing out on the doom buff RS gets but I see you actually did it. The only other answer I could think of is damage variance, but that normally only has a range of +/- 200, but if you consistently hit 7k before and are only hitting 6500 consistently now something is up.
Proud member of the Orange Chicken Club (OCC) and GFJrA

User Info: ffrkowaway

ffrkowaway
5 months ago#5
Assuming no buff cap issues, ATK past the soft cap can be treated like bonus damage, with the rule of thumb being % over soft cap/2 = bonus damage amount.

So if you do the math on 1230 ATK vs. 1067 ATK, you'll see an 8% drop is basically what should be expected. It's why stacking a 50% ATK on top of OK BSB is roughly equivalent to setting crit rate to to 50%.

As an example, all BSBs come with 20% ATK as part of burst mode, and thus, if already at or above soft cap, all BSBs increase physical damage by about 10% just from the burst mode. Assuming no buff cap issues.

Here's the math on 1230 ATK vs. 1067 ATK:

1230 ATK is about 53% above the soft cap, which should lead to about 26% bonus damage.

1067 ATK is about 33% above the soft cap, which should lead to about 16% bonus damage.

So you can see there's about 10 percentage points difference between the bonus damage in those two scenarios, right in line with the difference you saw.

User Info: Relm_Arrowny_87

Relm_Arrowny_87
5 months ago#6
eX Calmune posted...
Death Throes doesn't stack with OK's USB for one, so it is a redundant ability, otherwise I assume Death Throes is also a weaker boost than OK's so therefore you actually have lower attack using it second.

This is correct. Death Throes is actually only a +30% ATK boost, and it can overwrite OK's +50% ATK boost.

As for the topic, the soft cap is just that, a "soft" cap. You can keep boosting the damage but past that point, the increase is just a little less... dramatic. It's important to reach the soft cap because that's sort of the minimum to doing good DPS, but anything past that is, as ffrkowaway said, basically bonus damage.
What a fuddy duddy.

User Info: Dmonrei

Dmonrei
5 months ago#7
eX Calmune posted...
Death Throes doesn't stack with OK's USB for one, so it is a redundant ability, otherwise I assume Death Throes is also a weaker boost than OK's so therefore you actually have lower attack using it second.

Death throes isn't being used to stack atk boosts, it's to get the doom boost for reaping scythe (or so I'm assuming it is)

@Relm_Arrowny_87 posted...

This. Death Throes is actually only a +30% ATK boost, and it can overwrite OK's +50% ATK boost.

IIRC, at 50% (TGC USB) +30% (death throes) boost you only need 450-ish attack, so TGC should be well over soft cap.
Proud member of the Orange Chicken Club (OCC) and GFJrA

User Info: FedEx_Corp

FedEx_Corp
5 months ago#8
Dmonrei posted...

Death throes isn't being used to stack atk boosts, it's to get the doom boost for reaping scythe (or so I'm assuming it is)


Yeah, DT gives RS a 30% dmg boost.
The 30% ATK isn't important.

User Info: eX Calmune

eX Calmune
5 months ago#9
Dmonrei posted...
eX Calmune posted...
Death Throes doesn't stack with OK's USB for one, so it is a redundant ability, otherwise I assume Death Throes is also a weaker boost than OK's so therefore you actually have lower attack using it second.

Death throes isn't being used to stack atk boosts, it's to get the doom boost for reaping scythe (or so I'm assuming it is)


Death Throes being used second is overwriting the boost from OK is my point.
FFRK RW: Forbidden Wisdom - DBof
DFFOO: Cloud NT Buster (Organics passive) 530396574

User Info: Dmonrei

Dmonrei
5 months ago#10
@eX Calmune posted...

Death Throes being used second is overwriting the boost from OK is my point.

It's irrelevant at that point as with a 50 (TGC USB) and 30 (Death throes) boost it should still hit soft cap
Proud member of the Orange Chicken Club (OCC) and GFJrA
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