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  2. Final Fantasy X / X-2 HD Remaster
  3. What is specifically affected by this RNG bug?

User Info: AshAcrimonious

AshAcrimonious
4 years ago#1
Like what actual things in game are being affected?

User Info: PurestProdigy

PurestProdigy
4 years ago#2
From what I've heard so far if you do the exact same things when loading a save (ie take a certain number of steps) it will detirmine what monster you'll encounter and if you reset and do that action again it will always be the same monster. I'm guessing it may affect combat in that enemies will use the same moves under the same conditions which would make boss fights stupidly predictable.

If it does affect anything else I'm wondering if it can be exploited for rare drops or something. Not that FFX ever needed much exploitation; the game is hardly a grind for anything unless you want to max the sphere grid.

I'm just guessing here but I'm hypothesizing that the old versions used the PS2/3 internal clock respectively for RNG and they probably failed to see that the PS4's clock works differently or something. Don't quote me on that though I've never like peeked at the game's source code or anything.
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User Info: El_Virus

El_Virus
4 years ago#3
Could one just leave the area and come back to reset the RNG? Or just keep moving in circles to activate further encounters?

I don't see a problem with this except for one time encounters that have a chances at different drops. So far I don't know of such a possibility.
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User Info: Roy-Fokker

Roy-Fokker
4 years ago#4
Will it let me beat that damn dodger chocobo easier is the only real question here! ;)

User Info: XX-XALBERTX-XX

XX-XALBERTX-XX
4 years ago#5
This just sounds like the step counter FF7 used for determining when battles happened on the field map which is actually quite useful for speed runners if they can map out a route using it.
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User Info: Dragonspawn1319

Dragonspawn1319
4 years ago#6
PurestProdigy posted...

I'm just guessing here but I'm hypothesizing that the old versions used the PS2/3 internal clock respectively for RNG and they probably failed to see that the PS4's clock works differently or something. Don't quote me on that though I've never like peeked at the game's source code or anything.


I'm quoting you, and yes your wrong. The rng in this game functions in the same manner it did in all the final fantasies up to XII. The game simply has a giant internal data sheet of numbers that it cycles through. I'm really actually surprised more people on this board don't already understand how it works, it was a huge deal and almost necessary if you tried to 100% complete ffxii.

Say you attack some stupid enemy. The game will source from this data file the base 'rng' roll from the current position in the data file that it then uses in the rest of the attack damage calculation. It'll then move to the next set of variables in the file. Each set in the file has a predetermined number for any rng based action in the game. How many steps till the next encounter, which enemy formation it loads, death spell success, everything. As it uses up variables and moves through the data file, it gives the illusion of true randomness, but it really isn't.

The thing about it though, is the file is huge. Probably thousands of strings long, making it nearly impossible to predict what is going to happen next. And the game has a few of these files it picks one of each time you play.

What's happening with the bug is every time you start the game it's starting over at the beginning of the same rng file every time you load. Hence making what should be unpredictable predictable. That's the basic idea of what's going on with the rng. Why it's happening I have no clue.



El_Virus posted...
Could one just leave the area and come back to reset the RNG? Or just keep moving in circles to activate further encounters?

I don't see a problem with this except for one time encounters that have a chances at different drops. So far I don't know of such a possibility.


1) You'd have to reset the game.
2) I'm not at the point where I can mess with it, but in theory you might be able to say force a dark aeon to drop a ribbon armor for a specific pc by letting them get a killing blow. I've already heard of people using it to force Yojimbo into using zanmato.

Roy-Fokker posted...
Will it let me beat that damn dodger chocobo easier is the only real question here! ;)


Haven't tested it, but if you saved in the calm lands and reset you'll probably end up with the same exact balloon layout every time, which you could then memorize. But like I said haven't tested it, and the initial layout might be garbage.

User Info: Hobbun1

Hobbun1
4 years ago#7
Dragonspawn1319 posted...
PurestProdigy posted...

I'm just guessing here but I'm hypothesizing that the old versions used the PS2/3 internal clock respectively for RNG and they probably failed to see that the PS4's clock works differently or something. Don't quote me on that though I've never like peeked at the game's source code or anything.


I'm quoting you, and yes your wrong. The rng in this game functions in the same manner it did in all the final fantasies up to XII. The game simply has a giant internal data sheet of numbers that it cycles through. I'm really actually surprised more people on this board don't already understand how it works, it was a huge deal and almost necessary if you tried to 100% complete ffxii.

Say you attack some stupid enemy. The game will source from this data file the base 'rng' roll from the current position in the data file that it then uses in the rest of the attack damage calculation. It'll then move to the next set of variables in the file. Each set in the file has a predetermined number for any rng based action in the game. How many steps till the next encounter, which enemy formation it loads, death spell success, everything. As it uses up variables and moves through the data file, it gives the illusion of true randomness, but it really isn't.

The thing about it though, is the file is huge. Probably thousands of strings long, making it nearly impossible to predict what is going to happen next. And the game has a few of these files it picks one of each time you play.

What's happening with the bug is every time you start the game it's starting over at the beginning of the same rng file every time you load. Hence making what should be unpredictable predictable. That's the basic idea of what's going on with the rng. Why it's happening I have no clue.


Ok, so if I don't keep resetting the game, I won't have an issue? I just play through and then save and quit in another area (i.e, different monsters when I start up again) I will be ok?

Were there situations in the game where continually resetting was a benefit?

User Info: the9OO

the9OO
4 years ago#8
Hobbun1 posted...
Dragonspawn1319 posted...
PurestProdigy posted...

I'm just guessing here but I'm hypothesizing that the old versions used the PS2/3 internal clock respectively for RNG and they probably failed to see that the PS4's clock works differently or something. Don't quote me on that though I've never like peeked at the game's source code or anything.


I'm quoting you, and yes your wrong. The rng in this game functions in the same manner it did in all the final fantasies up to XII. The game simply has a giant internal data sheet of numbers that it cycles through. I'm really actually surprised more people on this board don't already understand how it works, it was a huge deal and almost necessary if you tried to 100% complete ffxii.

Say you attack some stupid enemy. The game will source from this data file the base 'rng' roll from the current position in the data file that it then uses in the rest of the attack damage calculation. It'll then move to the next set of variables in the file. Each set in the file has a predetermined number for any rng based action in the game. How many steps till the next encounter, which enemy formation it loads, death spell success, everything. As it uses up variables and moves through the data file, it gives the illusion of true randomness, but it really isn't.

The thing about it though, is the file is huge. Probably thousands of strings long, making it nearly impossible to predict what is going to happen next. And the game has a few of these files it picks one of each time you play.

What's happening with the bug is every time you start the game it's starting over at the beginning of the same rng file every time you load. Hence making what should be unpredictable predictable. That's the basic idea of what's going on with the rng. Why it's happening I have no clue.


Ok, so if I don't keep resetting the game, I won't have an issue? I just play through and then save and quit in another area (i.e, different monsters when I start up again) I will be ok?

Were there situations in the game where continually resetting was a benefit?


Yes.

eg. If you want to kill the dark aeons for a specific accessory and the trait of ribbon on it, you'll have to keep resetting. (Which I strongly feel that there is nothing wrong with doing that.)

This glitch will hinder you from getting different drops if you are to perform the same battle actions each time.

eg. If you are able to kill Dark Valefore within 7 hits of Tidus, Auron, Wakka, you'll more often than not get an [ACCESSORY A] instead of [ACCESORY B or C or D or E etc.]

User Info: PurestProdigy

PurestProdigy
4 years ago#9
Dragonspawn1319 posted...
I'm really actually surprised more people on this board don't already understand how it works, it was a huge deal and almost necessary if you tried to 100% complete ffxii.


There were certain things you could do to trick the RNG in FFXII, but I didn't know the basis behind any of it. It's not like FAQ writers explain the background of why it works, just how it works.
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User Info: Saintpara

Saintpara
4 years ago#10
So, in essence, if you're playing through the game normally with no intention of 100%ing the game... this won't affect you at all. You should be unable to notice this phenomenon unless you're trying to game the game.
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